Who is GAZ

[_Gazelam]

I don't really doubt that the Holy Ghost can testify to people outside of the church. The Holy Ghost testifies of truth.

But the point is that the fulness of the truth is only found withen the church. The ultimate idea is to sanctify oneself to be able to stand in the presence of the Father, and that path is only found withen the church.

Gaz

[_Runtu]

I don't really doubt that the Holy Ghost can testify to people outside of the church. The Holy Ghost testifies of truth.

But the point is that the fulness of the truth is only found withen the church. The ultimate idea is to sanctify oneself to be able to stand in the presence of the Father, and that path is only found withen the church.

Gaz

I guess I don't see the fulness of truth in polyandry, fake scriptures, lying, murder, etc. Maybe I'm just missing something.

[_desert_vulture]

But the point is that the fulness of the truth is only found withen the church. The ultimate idea is to sanctify oneself to be able to stand in the presence of the Father, and that path is only found withen the church.Gaz

Yeah, I guess since God loves us all equally, He will leave 99.999% of the earth's population to mope around in darkness, screwing up their lives through ignorance, while the .001% of the earth's population is his "elect" who he really loves. That attitude is elitist and exclusive, and God's love and mercy do not operate in such a way.

I just can't buy in to such a scenario Gazelam. To me, God's love is so much more transcendant and fair than any of us can possibly imagine. He is no respecter of persons. Everyone has an equal shot, a totally equal shot at life. He loves all his children, not just a select few that feel He has plucked them out to be His people. That attitude is arrogant as hell for Mormons to possess, and is so far beneath the true love God possesses. Pray and see. Mormonism is nothing special. Just one of many ways to God. Study and you will see. For the LDS church to claim that it is the sole possessor of truth is so unbelievably short-sighted. God is not going to consign his loved ones to hell, when they felt his love and followed Him, yet they didn't learn certain masonic handshakes. He is interested in our character and what we make of ourselves, in spite of our religious affiliation. That is why He pours his Spirit out on members of all denominations if they seek Him. Try to realize that Mormonism is only one vehicle, albeit a weak one with VERY flawed leadership. This is obvious in the many discrepancies and contradictions uttered by Brigham (Adam-God, Blood Atonement, etc) and every other contradiction in Mormonism.

[_Gazelam]

I recommend that you study alot more. God is a God of order, if he were not then we could not worship him. At what time did God accept the worship of the various creeds in ancient times? Did Christ accept the worship of the Sanhedrin?" For a text to begin I offer D&C 84: 17-64

17 Which priesthood continueth in the church of God in all generations, and is without beginning of days or end of years.
18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.
19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.
20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;
26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;
27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb.
28 For he was baptized while he was yet in his childhood, and was ordained by the angel of God at the time he was eight days old unto this power, to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power.
29 And again, the offices of elder and bishop are necessary appendages belonging unto the high priesthood.
30 And again, the offices of teacher and deacon are necessary appendages belonging to the lesser priesthood, which priesthood was confirmed upon Aaron and his sons.
31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses—for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed—
32 And the sons of Moses and of Aaron shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, upon Mount Zion in the Lord’s house, whose sons are ye; and also many whom I have called and sent forth to build up my cchurch.
33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.
35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.
40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.
41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.
42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.
43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.
44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.
45 For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
46 And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit.
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.
48 And the Father teacheth him of the covenant which he has renewed and confirmed upon you, which is confirmed upon you for your sakes, and not for your sakes only, but for the sake of the whole world.
49 And the whole world lieth in sin, and groaneth under darkness and under the bondage of sin.
50 And by this you may know they are under the bondage of sin, because they come not unto me.
51 For whoso cometh not unto me is under the bondage of sin.
52 And whoso receiveth not my voice is not acquainted with amy voice, and is not of me.
53 And by this you may know the righteous from the wicked, and that the whole world groaneth under sin and darkness even now.
54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—
55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new acovenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—
58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.
59 For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay.
60 Verily, verily, I say unto you who now hear my awords, which are my voice, blessed are ye inasmuch as you receive these things;
61 For I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you.
62 Therefore, ago ye into all the world; and unto whatsoever place ye cannot go ye shall send, that the testimony may go from you into all the world unto every creature.
63 And as I said unto mine apostles, even so I say unto you, for you are mine apostles, even God’s high priests; ye are they whom my Father hath given me; ye are my friends;
64 Therefore, as I said unto mine apostles I say unto you again, that every soul who believeth on your words, and is baptized by water for the remission of sins, shall receive the Holy Ghost.

This Church is the Church of Jesus Christ. To have is name sealed upon you requires a priesthood bearer. And there is no other name whereby salvation comes. Repent and understand that there is only one true church.

Gaz

[_Runtu]

Gaz,

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's this: if there is "one true church," it's not the two-bit con started by Joseph Smith.

[_Gazelam]

Runtu,

Please describe your version that would be acceptable to you.

Gaz

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Gaz,

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's this: if there is "one true church," it's not the two-bit con started by Joseph Smith.

Yes if there is one true Church it is not the MORMONS-----I Don't think there is one true anything actually

[_harmony]

I recommend that you study alot more. God is a God of order, if he were not then we could not worship him. At what time did God accept the worship of the various creeds in ancient times? Did Christ accept the worship of the Sanhedrin?" For a text to begin I offer D&C 84: 17-64
[snip lengthy scripture reference no one reads anyway] This Church is the Church of Jesus Christ. To have is name sealed upon you requires a priesthood bearer. And there is no other name whereby salvation comes. Repent and understand that there is only one true church.

Gaz

Circular thinking, Gaz. To prove the need for a true church, you quote scripture that none but the LDS church accept as scripture. In other words, you can't use the LDS church scripture to prove the LDS church is true. Same goes for your claims of authority, salvation, or priesthood. You have to use sources that are accept to your questioners, which do not include LDS scriptures. Prove your claims using acceptable sources, or sit down until you can. Right now, you're just making Mormons look stupid.

[_Runtu]

Runtu,

Please describe your version that would be acceptable to you.

Gaz

It's not about what I think is acceptable, Gaz. It's what is true. Or is that the church's latest approach: We are the acceptable church, not necessarily the true one.

[_Gazelam]

Please describe your version that would be true to you

Gaz