Charity - are you really serious?

[_Gazelam]

Runtu,

From my reading, it seems that Joseph was more of a borrower than a restorer. And why the heck do we need a window through which to view Jesus?

And just how woudl you be able to view Christ without the writings and sermons of the prophets?

[_sunstoned]

Granted my perspective is much different from charity's, but I don't believe that God asked Joseph Smith or any other LDS person to do anything. Nor was Joseph Smith asked to live a particular standard by anyone. Joseph Smith lived and suffered according to the choices he freely made. These choices vaulted him from utter obscurity to being the head of a community of over 10,000 people, and from poverty and powerlessness to living in a mansion and almost complete control of a city and a large militia. I do not feel particularly sorry for Smith, as it was largely his own behavior and missteps that placed his head in the proverbial noose. He did not have to sleep with the wives of other men. He did not have to destroy the press of the Expositor. Either he acted immorally or stupidly, and it cost him his life.

Spot on. Post saved in my quotes folder for future reference.

[_charity]

Granted my perspective is much different from charity's, but I don't believe that God asked Joseph Smith or any other LDS person to do anything. Nor was Joseph Smith asked to live a particular standard by anyone. Joseph Smith lived and suffered according to the choices he freely made. These choices vaulted him from utter obscurity to being the head of a community of over 10,000 people, and from poverty and powerlessness to living in a mansion and almost complete control of a city and a large militia. I do not feel particularly sorry for Smith, as it was largely his own behavior and missteps that placed his head in the proverbial noose. He did not have to sleep with the wives of other men. He did not have to destroy the press of the Expositor. Either he acted immorally or stupidly, and it cost him his life.

Spot on. Post saved in my quotes folder for future reference.

And women asked to be raped. And if you drive a car you are asking to be carjacked. And if you get on a plane you can't complain if it is hijacked. Go to work in the World Trade Center it is your fault if you die because a terrorist ran a plane into it.

This kind of thinking is really wild. I am all for taking personal responsibility, but saying a person deserves to shot by a mob because he was the mayor when the town council voted to destroy a printing press? you've gone over the edge.

[_dartagnan]

Mrs. Strawman, who said he deserved to be shot?

Trevor said he acted stupidly or immorally and it caused him his life.

This appears to be a fact.

Joseph Smith put himself in these positions so it does no good to blame others. I don't think anyone is saying he deserved to be killed. I think everyone agrees that his assassination was hardly surprising. If I walked down Brooklyn at night with a sign over my shoulders that said "I hate niggers," I would have put myself in a dangerous situation. I wouldn't "deserve" to die, but I would have been in a position caused by my own stupidity or immorality.

Joseph Smith pissed off a lot of people in a time when horse theft would warrant the noose. I am surprised he lasted as long as he did. Smith was constantly pushing the envelope and pressing his luck.

[_moksha]

You did notice the word "most?"

Good point. Who outside of Warren Jeffs could be views as having similar life experiences nowadays.

[_ludwigm]

He gave us more doctrine and insight into the teachign of Jesus Christ than any other prophet we have record of.

Call for references.

History of the Church Vol. 6, p. 408-412
...
Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo.
(Sunday, May 26, 1844)

President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. II Corinthians.
...
Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.

[_Trevor]

I listed on another thread some of the doctrines Joseph Smith restored:

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... php?t=4029

What I'm also talking about is sheer quantity of work. Enoch was known as a great record keeper, but his works have not been passed on to our generation. Moses gave us the Pentateuch, various prophets gave us further scripture, Paul gave us many epistles, but Joseph Smith gave us far more. He was a clear and unmuddied window through which we can and do receive a clear view of Jesus Christ.

Why not throw L. Ron Hubbard into the competition there? He accomplished quite a bit too!

[_Paul Osborne]

Maybe he wasn't perfect, but he lived his life according to a standard most people will never be required to live

Take out the word "maybe" and it will sound much better.

My 2 cents. :-)

Paul O