Question for Charity

[_The Nehor]

She didn't get any additional piercings until she was 16. Since 16 year olds have more freedom, she chose to add more. Many more. We were watching conference on TV when President Hinckley made his one earring counsel. She took all of them out but one per ear right then and there.

Wait a minute...she didn't pray about it first to make sure that GBH was speaking God's will and not just personal opinion? And when she didn't, why didn't you counsel her to pray about it first? Why allow her to be a blind follower? We all know that you know better, and I would expect you to teach your children the correct principles.

Or maybe she just didn't care that much about how many earrings she had.

[_Coggins7]

I am sure you are more tongue in cheek with this one. Sometimes as the propeht (or soemone else for that matter) is speaking, you can get an instant witness that what he is sayng is right. You don't need to go through the study, ponder and pray process. I would say for those who had questions about the one earring thing (or anything else) then they should go through the SPP process.

I've had this experience, and I've felt the Spirit moving through a room unifying those who are spiritually "tuned" when a difficult or contentious question comes up.

Fascinating, actually.

[_Scottie]

She didn't get any additional piercings until she was 16. Since 16 year olds have more freedom, she chose to add more. Many more. We were watching conference on TV when President Hinckley made his one earring counsel. She took all of them out but one per ear right then and there.

Wait a minute...she didn't pray about it first to make sure that GBH was speaking God's will and not just personal opinion? And when she didn't, why didn't you counsel her to pray about it first? Why allow her to be a blind follower? We all know that you know better, and I would expect you to teach your children the correct principles.

Or maybe she just didn't care that much about how many earrings she had.

Based on Charity's earlier story, I'd say she cared very much how many earrings she had.

[_ludwigm]

Off topic: ...
Eat a frog for breakfast and nothing worse can happen to you all day.

Off topic, too:

I did eat frog hams. It is excellent! (I think it is from french cuisine.)

[_guy sajer]

Thanks, guys for the well wishes. Unfortunately, my knee did not heal. I can't walk until I can have a knee replacement. But I do quite fine in the wheelchair, and I can transfer easily from chair to other places.

Now about the topic. "Touch love." I don't think I am all the way in the camp of the real "tough love" proponents. But I am a lot closer there than to the permissive side. If I were to have motto's plastered all over my walls they would be things like

*I never promised you a rose garden.
*I never said it would be easy. I said it would be worth it.
*No pain, no gain.

Etc.

I have certainly seen that with therapists. My therapist in the rehab center got me upright and moving. I have full flexibility in my leg, it is just the patellar platform did not heal, and that had nothing to do with therapy, either hard or easy.. But I could have ended up with a leg that would hardly bend, which would have been a real inconvenience. I know what my therapy goals were. The "easy" therapist would not have gotten me there.

My mom made me practice the piano when I really wanted to go out and play baseball with the kids in our big yard. But my piano experiences have been some of the most fulfilling of my life. I wouldn't have had them, if she had let me go out and play as I wanted to.

That is the way I raised my children. They sometimes had to do things they didn't want to do, they sometimes didn't get to do things they wanted to, and they certainly didn't have a lot of the freedom that some of their friends had, but none of the them used drugs, got pregnant as a teenager or got anyone else pregnant, they all have gotten educations and have jobs which keep them off welfare.

I hope I used eternal pricniples. I think Heavenly Father sometimes requires things of that that we don't want to do, and His job is not to answer prayers for winning the lottery so we can have an easy life. But like I feel toward my mom now about making me practice the piano when I didn't want to, I am very grateful to her.

That's my idea on tough love, mean therapists, and mean moms.

Why not have the pretend superhero bishop give you a magical blessing?

"Sister Summer's Eve, we lay our hands upon your head...."

Aside from the crass Summer's Eve reference, his question is legit. With this magical power of the priesthood that Mormon males possess, why not just get one of them to recite the magic incantations and . . . viola . . . no more leg injury? Come to that, if one really possesses the power of God, why are doctors even necessary in the first place?

My wife and I have never used the tough love approach. If anything, we've been pretty easy. Yet, I dare say our children are turning out fine. Our 18-year old son is away at college and acting reasonably responsibly (ok, he is partying, but I don't confuse that with immorality or irresponsibility, unless it passes a certain line). For example, he just earned a 4.0 in his first semester of college (despite scrapping by with a 3.3 GPA in high school where he never studied, and while we got on his case for it, we never played the tough love card).

In constrast, the son of our friends (tough love practitioners extraordinaire) started college the same time (and at a less demanding college and taking less demanding courses as our son--ASU vs. UVSU). He is sowing his wild oats big time and ignored his studies, earning a 2.5 his first semester (and this after he had earned a full tuition scholarship, which he then proceeded to lose).

Now, I am aware that this is not a sprint but a long, long race, so one cannot say anything definitive about how the boys will turn out in the end (I am sure both will turn out just fine). But the point is that we used a very different approach than our friends, who followed something closer to Charity's model, and, at least in the ST, our son is acting and performing far more responsibly so far.

So what does this prove? Nothing really, except that Charity's recipe for parental success (and life success) is but one of many, many, many potentially successful recipes

On another note, Charity shares one big thing in common with Joseph Smith. He believed in “touch love” too.

[_charity]

With this magical power of the priesthood that Mormon males possess, why not just get one of them to recite the magic incantations and . . . viola . . . no more leg injury? Come to that, if one really possesses the power of God, why are doctors even necessary in the first place?

This life is a test. We are supposed to do all we can for ourselves, and then God steps in and does whatever else is needed for us to grow and develop. We don't always know what that might be. I had a priesthood blessing when I injured my knee. I wasn't put back to perfect, but I have received many, many gifts from God through that experience. Sidestepping trials isn't always the best for out ultimate growth. What parent would say to a child, "You don't need all the stress and expense of a college education. You don't need any schooling to work at McD's."

I think prayers aren't always answered in the way we hope they will be for a couple of reasons. First, we mayi think something would be for our best and it would really cause us harm.

Second, if every priesthood blesing were answered immediately and some miracle happened, we would lose our agency. What faith does it take if every injury, illness, calamity is immediately healed, cured, prevented?

[_guy sajer]

With this magical power of the priesthood that Mormon males possess, why not just get one of them to recite the magic incantations and . . . viola . . . no more leg injury? Come to that, if one really possesses the power of God, why are doctors even necessary in the first place?

This life is a test. We are supposed to do all we can for ourselves, and then God steps in and does whatever else is needed for us to grow and develop. We don't always know what that might be. I had a priesthood blessing when I injured my knee. I wasn't put back to perfect, but I have received many, many gifts from God through that experience. Sidestepping trials isn't always the best for out ultimate growth. What parent would say to a child, "You don't need all the stress and expense of a college education. You don't need any schooling to work at McD's."

I think prayers aren't always answered in the way we hope they will be for a couple of reasons. First, we mayi think something would be for our best and it would really cause us harm.

Second, if every priesthood blesing were answered immediately and some miracle happened, we would lose our agency. What faith does it take if every injury, illness, calamity is immediately healed, cured, prevented?

Yes, of course. Along with the power comes a ready-made batch of excuses for when its exercise fails. And fail it does, frequently, which is one of the major reasons Mormons withhold from using it more often than they do. They realize this too, and they don't want to risk it too much, both because they suspect it won't work, and they fear that if it doesn't work, then it'll mean that there's really nothing there.

The Mormon Priesthood is, on average, as efficacious as rubbing one's lucky rabbit foot, whichis the same as saying about as efficacious as praying in general.

[_charity]

Yes, of course. Along with the power comes a ready-made batch of excuses for when its exercise fails. And fail it does, frequently, which is one of the major reasons Mormons withhold from using it more often than they do. They realize this too, and they don't want to risk it too much, both because they suspect it won't work, and they fear that if it doesn't work, then it'll mean that there's really nothing there.

The Mormon Priesthood is, on average, as efficacious as rubbing one's lucky rabbit foot, whichis the same as saying about as efficacious as praying in general.

In my household, whenever anyone is in need of a blessing they receive one. We see these pronouncements regularly fulfilled. If you were at one time a believing member, I'm sorry your experience was vastly different.

[_guy sajer]

Yes, of course. Along with the power comes a ready-made batch of excuses for when its exercise fails. And fail it does, frequently, which is one of the major reasons Mormons withhold from using it more often than they do. They realize this too, and they don't want to risk it too much, both because they suspect it won't work, and they fear that if it doesn't work, then it'll mean that there's really nothing there.

The Mormon Priesthood is, on average, as efficacious as rubbing one's lucky rabbit foot, whichis the same as saying about as efficacious as praying in general.

In my household, whenever anyone is in need of a blessing they receive one. We see these pronouncements regularly fulfilled. If you were at one time a believing member, I'm sorry your experience was vastly different.

It's not just me, Charity, it's my old friend who blessed his son to recover from a serious illness, who's son soon thereafter died. It's my father's friend who blessed his daughter to recover from an illness, who soon thereafter died. It's my sister who, despite prayers, blessings, fastings, still doesn't have a job. It's millions and millions of people who pray for the well-being of loved ones, who, nonetheless, die or fail to receive the desired intertervention.

Maybe you're special, Charity, maybe God loves you more than these other people. Or maybe, if what you say is true, you are among the many randomly distributed who enjoy fortuitious circumstance.

While we're at it, I (as well as the rest of the world) am still waiting for the first person to lose a limb to have it restored through the miraculous power of God.

It is a wonder to behold how the faithful maintain such dogged belief in a system of intevrention that fails so regularly.

[_solomarineris]

She didn't get any additional piercings until she was 16. Since 16 year olds have more freedom, she chose to add more. Many more. We were watching conference on TV when President Hinckley made his one earring counsel. She took all of them out but one per ear right then and there.

Did you also buy her a copy of "Fascinating Woman" by Endelin yet?

How is this girl supposed to learn the leadership skills to stay competitive with her peers
in this harsh world of survival arena, when she listens an old man (spiritual leader) to
take extra earings off. Even though she likes to wear them.

Giving into this kinda demand sets any girl up for subservience, complicity, comformity.
The most useless traits a woman needs in life to compete with men for equality.

In this big city I live, I see 12-13 years old girls dressed up like tramps, hookers, I do feel
sorry for them, there's something seriously wrong there.

But in your & other responsible parents case it is a wrong message to tell a 16 year old girl
not to have two piercings in their ears.
You've gotta let them be.
After all, this is still Men's world.