Under What Circumstances...?

[_BishopRic]

...unless he made it up. Which is far more likely than Grant Palmer's "pretentious claim" of being an Insider that understands church history better than 99% of the LDS members...

We have each seen the same evidence. I chose to believe based on what I see, and you chose not to believe. We made out choice.

I doubt you've seen what I've seen...and I would guess you doubt I've "seen" what you have, so you're right, we made our choice based on our experiences.

[_the road to hana]

I think it is honest to resign when the person no longer believes but maintains membership so he/she can claim insider status.

Ridiculous. What do you mean by "insider status?" Is the bishop who converted from Methodism claiming some "special insider status" as a Methodist? The high councilman who gets up in Fast and Testimony Meeting to bear his testimony of converting from Catholicism somehow claiming "insider status" as a Catholic?

Point to me where the LDS Church ever encourages converts from other religions to "resign" memberships from their former churches. Show me where they tell them never to talk about their experiences or perspectives as Methodists/Episcopalians/Catholics/Baptists. Explain to me how converts from other churches are briefed on how they should never give a talk or present a paper comparing aspects of Mormonism, theology or practice, with their former denominations, or claim "insider status."

It doesn't happen.

When the Mormon Church starts having converts resign their former faiths, then there is some credibility in Mormons encouraging former Mormons to resign their faith, but not unless or until.

[_charity]

I think it is honest to resign when the person no longer believes but maintains membership so he/she can claim insider status.

Ridiculous. What do you mean by "insider status?" Is the bishop who converted from Methodism claiming some "special insider status" as a Methodist? The high councilman who gets up in Fast and Testimony Meeting to bear his testimony of converting from Catholicism somehow claiming "insider status" as a Catholic?

Point to me where the LDS Church ever encourages converts from other religions to "resign" memberships from their former churches. Show me where they tell them never to talk about their experiences or perspectives as Methodists/Episcopalians/Catholics/Baptists. Explain to me how converts from other churches are briefed on how they should never give a talk or present a paper comparing aspects of Mormonism, theology or practice, with their former denominations, or claim "insider status."

It doesn't happen.

When the Mormon Church starts having converts resign their former faiths, then there is some credibility in Mormons encouraging former Mormons to resign their faith, but not unless or until.

We are sure on two different tracks, here, hana.

I was referring to people retaining membership in an organization they no longer believe in, in order to give more credibility to their attempts to break the organization down.

So your rant is really not relevant to what I was saying.

Oh, and just so you will know. I know many people who converted from other other churches, Methodist, Catholic, Assembly of God, and Jewish. None of them ever spoke about the falsehoods and lies and deceptions of their former church and how they were enlightened now. They and we appreciated the good teachings they had received which had helped make them better people.

[_truth dancer]

For some non-believers their resignation is a sign of closure and feels essential to move on, for others non-belief alone is enough to be done with the church and there is no need to follow more church rules to get out.

I think it is a very personal decision.

As TRTH said, few churches require some official resignation procedure to get out... more typically if you no longer want to be a part of an organization you just stop participating, and if you no longer believe in a religion, non-belief alone confirms your lack of belief. There is no need to continue to follow official procedures devised by the group of which one is no longer a part.

~dancer~

[_the road to hana]

Oh, and just so you will know. I know many people who converted from other other churches, Methodist, Catholic, Assembly of God, and Jewish. None of them ever spoke about the falsehoods and lies and deceptions of their former church and how they were enlightened now.

Really? Your experience doesn't match mine. I've heard a bishop, one of his counselors, a high councilman, a YW leader and several ward members and visitors do just that. And this is not the only place I've witnessed it.

And yes, they claim some sense of "insider status" because of it, as though they are more of an authority on that faith as a result of their membership, even if they've moved on. Yes again, it does carry weight with other members, whether what they are saying is credible or accurate or not.

Just on a quick Internet search, I can give you two quick examples in print where an LDS convert is cited as having special "insider status" from their former religion:

Quentin Cook, Be a Missionary All Your Life

By Common Consent, BYU Studies 46/1 2007

[_charity]

Oh, and just so you will know. I know many people who converted from other other churches, Methodist, Catholic, Assembly of God, and Jewish. None of them ever spoke about the falsehoods and lies and deceptions of their former church and how they were enlightened now.

Really? Your experience doesn't match mine. I've heard a bishop, one of his counselors, a high councilman, a YW leader and several ward members and visitors do just that. And this is not the only place I've witnessed it.

And yes, they claim some sense of "insider status" because of it, as though they are more of an authority on that faith as a result of their membership, even if they've moved on. Yes again, it does carry weight with other members, whether what they are saying is credible or accurate or not.

Just on a quick Internet search, I can give you two quick examples in print where an LDS convert is cited as having special "insider status" from their former religion:

Quentin Cook, Be a Missionary All Your Life

By Common Consent, BYU Studies 46/1 2007

Do you just link to articles that you think might have something to support your argument but you don't read them? This is from the article by Elder Cook. This is about the experience of the Catholic priest who joined the Church.

"After being taught by missionaries and praying sincerely, he received inspiration that he should resign as a Catholic priest and be baptized and confirmed into the Church of Jesus Christ. His letter of resignation expressed his love and appreciation for the Catholic Church."

That was exactly what I said.

[_the road to hana]

Do you just link to articles that you think might have something to support your argument but you don't read them? This is from the article by Elder Cook. This is about the experience of the Catholic priest who joined the Church.

Of course I read the articles. Do you want me to cut-and-paste their entire content here? Jordan Vajda is held up in both instances as something of an expert on things Catholic for having been Catholic before Mormon.

After being taught by missionaries and praying sincerely, he received inspiration that he should resign as a Catholic priest and be baptized and confirmed into the Church of Jesus Christ. His letter of resignation expressed his love and appreciation for the Catholic Church."

That was exactly what I said.

As far as I know, there is no such thing as "resigning" from Catholicism, because they consider that once Catholic, you are always Catholic, and once a priest, always a priest. So, in the eyes of his former religion, at least, he would still be Catholic, if not practicing, and still a priest, if not ministering.

If you read the article, you should also note the irony in Quentin Cook citing what he believes is a "letter of resignation," since this is regarding by Mormons as someone being an apostate.

What is held up as honorable by LDS leaders, when someone leaves another church to become Mormon, is held in disdain in the reverse, including by you. If somewhere in a Southern Baptist congregation, someone published or gave a talk citing a convert from Mormonism, and referring to their "letter of resignation," you wouldn't think that was worthy of admiration.

[_John Larsen]

Charity,

By the logic here, should converts to the Church be required to formally resign from their previous religions before being baptized?

[_Some Schmo]

I never intended to formally resign until I was advised by other members of the DAMU to do it in order to get the missionaries to quit their uninvited drop-bys. I'm happy to say that since giving them that letter, I've not heard from the missionaries (although I have continued to receive mail from the church - I guess they really don't remove your name... or your address).

[_SatanWasSetUp]

...unless he made it up. Which is far more likely than Grant Palmer's "pretentious claim" of being an Insider that understands church history better than 99% of the LDS members...

We have each seen the same evidence. I chose to believe based on what I see, and you chose not to believe. We made out choice.

How do you know you've seen the same evidence. Maybe I have super-secret spiritual evidence that Trump's everything and proves the church is false, but I don't want to share it with you because it's too sacred;)