'Barbarism' of the emigrants murdered at Mountain Meadows?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Why should we accept your anonymous assault on Rick before you have even read his book.

One-note wonder Bob strikes again!

Turley is a historian, although more of an achivist -- branch of the study of history. He hasn't practiced law for many years.

Nonetheless, it is ironic that the Church Historian (Marlin Jenson) and the Assistant Church Historian (Turley) are trained lawyers, not historians.

He is a published historian and unlike Quinn (except for Quinn's queer studies book) has published in an independent academic press.

Are you referring to his pro-Church Hoffman book called "Victims"? That was a whitewash of the affair. And no one disputes that Quinn is a trained historian, whereas Turley is not.

He is a member of the Utah State Historical Records Advisory Board, a member of the National Historical Publications and Records Commission.

And ...?

I also know him personally, and he is a close relative, so I admit to my biases.

Fair enough. A couple of my own biases: Turley is the son of an emeritus Seventy, and is employed by the LDS Church. I can't imagine him 'rocking the boat' with this MMM book. I will read the book, but be very skeptical of its claims simply because the authors will try and protect the Church and the Brethren from blame (much like Turley did for the more recent Brethren in "Victims").

[_antishock8]

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3307680. ... 4F32AD3138

Well, I finally managed to dig up an old photo of the Mormons dressed as indians. This puts this one to bed, for sure.

[_rcrocket]

Crockett:

I think it more accurate to say that the emigrants were massacred because the Mormons thought or claimed they were barbaric. News reports of the Fancher train abuses quickly made it to the Los Angeles press.

News reports planted by the church in the early stages of the cover up.

Brooks didn't dismiss these accounts. Bagley ignored them entirely and said the accounts of provocation were made up years later.

These Los Angeles press accounts in October 1857 were not from "the Church." They were reports provided by non-member emigrants who passed through Cedar City on the way to Los Angeles right after the massacre. Of course, they were recounting what the locals were telling them.

[_rcrocket]

Turley is a historian, although more of an achivist -- branch of the study of history. He hasn't practiced law for many years.

Nonetheless, it is ironic that the Church Historian (Marlin Jenson) and the Assistant Church Historian (Turley) are trained lawyers, not historians.

Well, feel free to dismiss them entirely because they are "lawyers." They haven't practiced law for years and decades, and both serve on national committees for archival preservation.

Quinn may be trained, but he has one less book published by an academic peer reviewed press (unless you count the queer studies book) than Turley.

[_Scottie]

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3307680.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=BAA3E61C514E7EC628438FDCFFD530EFA55A1E4F32AD3138

Well, I finally managed to dig up an old photo of the Mormons dressed as indians. This puts this one to bed, for sure.

This link didn't work.

[_Dr. Shades]

These Los Angeles press accounts in October 1857 were not from "the Church." They were reports provided by non-member emigrants who passed through Cedar City on the way to Los Angeles right after the massacre. Of course, they were recounting what the locals were telling them.

Stop the press here. . . do you honestly believe that the locals were telling non-Mormons about the massacre??

[_Mister Scratch]

These Los Angeles press accounts in October 1857 were not from "the Church." They were reports provided by non-member emigrants who passed through Cedar City on the way to Los Angeles right after the massacre. Of course, they were recounting what the locals were telling them.

Stop the press here. . . do you honestly believe that the locals were telling non-Mormons about the massacre??

I get the sense that Bob is dishonestly conflating unrelated pieces of data. But, then again, we already know that he dishonestly manipulates MMM data.

[_Scottie]

These Los Angeles press accounts in October 1857 were not from "the Church." They were reports provided by non-member emigrants who passed through Cedar City on the way to Los Angeles right after the massacre. Of course, they were recounting what the locals were telling them.

Stop the press here. . . do you honestly believe that the locals were telling non-Mormons about the massacre??

Why wouldn't they?

I'm no MMM expert, but I thought the plan was to blame the Indians for the massacre. Wouldn't they want to tell everyone who passed by how the Indians slaughtered these people?

[_TAK]

These Los Angeles press accounts in October 1857 were not from "the Church." They were reports provided by non-member emigrants who passed through Cedar City on the way to Los Angeles right after the massacre. Of course, they were recounting what the locals were telling them.

Stop the press here. . . do you honestly believe that the locals were telling non-Mormons about the massacre??

Why wouldn't they?

I'm no MMM expert, but I thought the plan was to blame the Indians for the massacre. Wouldn't they want to tell everyone who passed by how the Indians slaughtered these people?

Once again Bob is playing lawyer with the facts .. Mormons in So. Utah were spreading stories about the Fancher train making it look like they had it coming from the Indians.

[_Gadianton]

"Barbarism?" Not a very neutral term for historians who no doubt are aware of MAD's crusade against presentism. LOL!