Teaching them to lie

[_antishock8]

Well. Everyone lies. So whether you're a member of the Mormon cult or not doesn't change, and will never change, the fact that people lie. People practice deception exceptionally well, especially self-deception. So I'm not sure not being something will in fact make you more honest. Regardless, knowingly promulgating a lie seems dirtier than unwittingly being part of a lie.

That being said, I had no idea there was a "Mormon gulag", whatever that is. Is this something similar to an Islamic madrassa? You'll have to offer up some of the details of your experience, it sounds interesting.

[_Tarski]

Well. Everyone lies. So whether you're a member of the Mormon cult or not doesn't change, and will never change, the fact that people lie. People practice deception exceptionally well, especially self-deception. So I'm not sure not being something will in fact make you more honest. Regardless, knowingly promulgating a lie seems dirtier than unwittingly being part of a lie.

That being said, I had no idea there was a "Mormon gulag", whatever that is. Is this something similar to an Islamic madrassa? You'll have to offer up some of the details of your experience, it sounds interesting.

Provo Canyon School? (The boys only pre-ACLU suit version from the 70s was unfricking-believable)

[_dblagent007]

My amazing teenage daughter and I are close.

She is sad that I have chosen to beome an apostate but not heartbroken yet. She loves me with all her heart, as I do her. Her innocent faith would encourage her to believe that I will repent and return. I'm not coming back, but she refuses in her heart to believe this. She won't have to grieve until I die as an apostate. Then you will see my daughter with wounds as deep as the Grand Canyon - and I won't be there to comfort her. I hate this thought. Not much I can do about it unless I'm willing to become a liar. This sucks in the most miserable way.

Yes, Mormons (and some other religeons) are taught to grieve at death - for apostate family members.

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

As for cruelty, it seems that aetheists grieve the most (based on my experience) when someone dies because death is absolute. Death = the end. Mormons seem to not grieve as much because they have a hope of seeing them again. Also, in Mormon theology, almost everyone ends up living in a kingdom of glory.

[_Pokatator]

My amazing teenage daughter and I are close.

She is sad that I have chosen to beome an apostate but not heartbroken yet. She loves me with all her heart, as I do her. Her innocent faith would encourage her to believe that I will repent and return. I'm not coming back, but she refuses in her heart to believe this. She won't have to grieve until I die as an apostate. Then you will see my daughter with wounds as deep as the Grand Canyon - and I won't be there to comfort her. I hate this thought. Not much I can do about it unless I'm willing to become a liar. This sucks in the most miserable way.

Yes, Mormons (and some other religeons) are taught to grieve at death - for apostate family members.

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

As for cruelty, it seems that aetheists grieve the most (based on my experience) when someone dies because death is absolute. Death = the end. Mormons seem to not grieve as much because they have a hope of seeing them again. Also, in Mormon theology, almost everyone ends up living in a kingdom of glory.

If believing a lie makes you feel better, have at it, the dead apostate member isn't going to care.

"As for cruelty" ..... WTF?

[_GoodK]

Is there a particular way to grieve?

I believe so. I believe the "grief cycle" - shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance is important to go through, and getting stuck in one particular part of the cycle, like denial, or bargaining, is probably pretty unhealthy.

Here is my solution: Create new myths that are in line with our experiences and knowledge! Simple as that. Of course the myths would be based, as they always have been on the current understanding of existence and the universe of the time. If the people of the world embraced our new story of the universe, (the one that seems to make the most sense to our human senses and experiences, perhaps we would come together as a planetary family rather than be separated by divergent ancient stories that make no sense to anyone not indoctrinated into the particular belief?

We don't even need to make new myths TD. We could just fix the old ones, if people really need myths. Imagine how easy it would be. We could dramatically improve Christianity right now by tearing Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Exodus, 2 Samuel, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation out of the Bible.

Imagine what a little bit of real knowledge could do - I could insert parts of my 8th grade health and science textbooks that would make the Bible a thousand times more useful.

They likely felt justified in sending me to a Mormon gulag for a year and a half - where the Mormon religion is literally forced on adolescents (for more on this, stay tuned).
.

PCS?

No -- but I know a few people that have worked at Provo Canyon. I don't think it is affiliated with the church. The place I am talking about has an LDS mission with two sets of full-time missionaries.

[_truth dancer]

dblagent007"

My amazing teenage daughter and I are close.

She is sad that I have chosen to beome an apostate but not heartbroken yet. She loves me with all her heart, as I do her. Her innocent faith would encourage her to believe that I will repent and return. I'm not coming back, but she refuses in her heart to believe this. She won't have to grieve until I die as an apostate. Then you will see my daughter with wounds as deep as the Grand Canyon - and I won't be there to comfort her. I hate this thought. Not much I can do about it unless I'm willing to become a liar. This sucks in the most miserable way.

Yes, Mormons (and some other religeons) are taught to grieve at death - for apostate family members.

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

As for cruelty, it seems that aetheists grieve the most (based on my experience) when someone dies because death is absolute. Death = the end. Mormons seem to not grieve as much because they have a hope of seeing them again. Also, in Mormon theology, almost everyone ends up living in a kingdom of glory.

This quote is not mine.


~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

As for cruelty, it seems that aetheists grieve the most (based on my experience) when someone dies because death is absolute. Death = the end. Mormons seem to not grieve as much because they have a hope of seeing them again. Also, in Mormon theology, almost everyone ends up living in a kingdom of glory.

I don't get this reasoning.

I could make up all sorts of great after lifes much better than either of the above. The LDS after life is not appealing in the least to my way of thinking.

;-)

I also find the idea of anything but the CK described as a "kingdom of glory" very odd. in my opinion, any sort of afterlife where one is not with their families and loved ones is Hell. Period. Trying to make it seem like the other "kingdoms" are great places to be is pretty strange.

~dancer~

[_GoodK]

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

No, it's not better. I strongly believe that it is not a good idea to lie to yourself. Adults are free to do so, though. Children should not be subjected to it, in my opinion.

Furthermore, I find it offensive to the memory of the "apostate" family member.

I do not want any mention of Jesus Christ, Elohim, Yaweh, Yakba, Allah, Zeus, Bob's Big Boy, chupacabre, or any other mythical creatures at my funeral.

I want nothing to do with the spreading of fairy tales and deception - especially to people who are mourning my death.

[Guest]

She is sad that I have chosen to beome an apostate but not heartbroken yet. She loves me with all her heart, as I do her. Her innocent faith would encourage her to believe that I will repent and return. I'm not coming back, but she refuses in her heart to believe this. She won't have to grieve until I die as an apostate. Then you will see my daughter with wounds as deep as the Grand Canyon - and I won't be there to comfort her. I hate this thought. Not much I can do about it unless I'm willing to become a liar. This sucks in the most miserable way.

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be better to believe that when an apostate family member dies such a person still lives in a kingdom of glory with the possibility of being visited than to believe that such a person has completely ceased to exist?

Mormons seem to not grieve as much because they have a hope of seeing them again. Also, in Mormon theology, almost everyone ends up living in a kingdom of glory.

"kingdom of glory" - Have you ever asked yourself, "kingdom of what??"

Kingdom of glorious Eunichs?

It's damnation. When Smith was quoted to have said that if we ignorant children of God knew what even the Telestial kingdom was like, we would commit suicide. What an ass (smith).

No one has ever told my daughter or myself what to expect - other than eternal life exile with no parole.

[_JAK]

marg,

I don't think that the grief process "requires" anything in particular. It's just that, a process. I'm sorry to hear your news.

Vicki

Thanks Vicki. I don't think I've gone through a grieving process at this point. Or I have but it's been a slow one over the years. I do wish we (my dad and I) had done a few things differently. We made decisions due to insufficient information, but we could have looked into end stage COPD before the time came and made better choices at a few critical points based on knowledge instead of ones we made based on ignorance.

marg,

I too am sorry to read this news. Your dad may need various kinds of support having watched close-up the loss of quality of life for your mother. In some cases, perhaps many, people really do choose against quantity of life which has lost any meaningful quality. I think many of us would choose that given circumstances of no real quality of life.

Take care!