Net Effect of Apologetics on Leadership and Membership

[Guest]

The Brethren could announce tomorrow that the Book of Mormon is pure allegory, and these TBMs would carry on as if nothing had happened.

I'm sorry....let me be clearer....they'd leave by the thousands.

[_RockSlider]

Personally, I'm glad I found Sunstone. I found out I wasn't alone.

Is it true the Church discourages anything to do with Sunstone? Or is that a myth.

I believe that originally, the term/concept of “intellectuals” being an apostate/bad thing was synonymous with Sun Stone. I was interested in reading of late (I have not followed these sites for years), that it appears the churches stance has softened.
There was a time that you did not want to let your Bishop know you read it.

[_StructureCop]

I'm sorry....let me be clearer....they'd leave by the hundreds of thousands.

I don't know... it would probably look like a bell curve, with the first 1/4-1/3 having a crisis of faith, the middle third having no change of faith, and the last third or so being relieved and emphatically embracing the idea.

[_harmony]

Is it true the Church discourages anything to do with Sunstone? Or is that a myth.

Sunstone's relationship to the institutional Church probably deserves its own thread.

Sorry, Cop. I didn't mean to derail your thread. I just meant that I find more compatibility within Sunstone than I do with FAIR folk, and I am active LDS.

[_StructureCop]

Sorry, Cop. I didn't mean to derail your thread. I just meant that I find more compatibility within Sunstone than I do with FAIR folk, and I am active LDS.

No worries, I didn't mean to imply that I didn't welcome discussion of the topic -- I just think that the history of Sunstone and its relationship to the institutional Church has been so eventful that it would need its own thread to give it the consideration it deserves.

[_RockSlider]

More derail … sorry …
I believe it’s a true statement … Sun Stone’s foundation was established by some of the first to be fired from BYU and x’ed or disfellowshipped.

man this site is Slllooooooowwww

[_Sethbag]

Mormons do what ever other religious believer does, and use our intellectual faculties to find ways to keep believing stuff that doesn't deserve otherwise to be believed.

Just registering a formal dissent: I reject this characterization, both with regard to Mormons and with regard to other religious believers.

Your dissent is noted. I maintain the claim, however, both with regards to Mormons, and with regards to other religious believers.

A good example of what I'm talking about is David Bokovoy's explanation regarding the need to "examine your paradigm" and change it, as need be, to maintain the faith when evidence turns up that the existing one is false. I don't argue that changing one's beliefs in the face of evidence that contradicts them is a good idea, but that's not what David is saying. The fundamental belief in the truth claims of the Church isn't up for changing - only the defenses against the hostile evidence may be changed, as necessary.

Hence global flood turns to local flood, "first flesh" and "mother of all living" turn to "first homo sapiens with a child spirit of God in them", literal creation a few thousand years ago turns into "maybe God used evolution", and so forth. I would also include in all of that "maybe the scribes did it", American Indians being Lamanites turning into "among the ancestors of at least some of the American Indians was at least one Lamanite", the real Egyptian rendition of the Book of Abraham is on some missing piece of papyrus, or else maybe Abraham used some Egyptian funeral rites as some sort of catalyst to evoke in the mind of a spirit-led reader the account contained in the Book of Abraham, and all of the other various alternative explanations. The possible list goes on, but you already get my point, even if you won't agree with it.

ps: thanks for the compliment in that other thread (about the court case). The personal vendettas are one aspect of this exchange between believers and critics which I just cannot stand.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I believe it’s a true statement … Sun Stone’s foundation was established by some of the first to be fired from BYU and x’ed or disfellowshipped.

Peggy Fletcher Stack? Scott Kenney?

Don't think so.

The personal vendettas are one aspect of this exchange between believers and critics which I just cannot stand.

You would really enjoy being on the receiving end of it, day in and day out, for three years.

Just noticed your signature. I'm happy to report that you're wrong.

Best,

-dcp

[_RockSlider]

Peggy Fletcher Stack? Scott Kenney?

Don't think so.

Sorry for the ignorance … I never read/followed Sun Stone … I guess my statement was more appropriate for the “myths” thread as that is how I was taught about the taboo nature of SunStone in my ward.

[_StructureCop]

Sorry for the ignorance … I never read/followed Sun Stone … I guess my statement was more appropriate for the “myths” thread as that is how I was taught about the taboo nature of SunStone in my ward.

There are some great resources on the history of Sunstone. One is an oral history podcast John Dehlin did with Elbert Peck that I really enjoyed: http://mormonstories.org/podcast/MormonStories-104v-ElbertPeckPt1.mp4