Middle way Mormons are in peril

[_Kishkumen]

Oh please........

Not much you can do except huff and puff and make faces, eh, Nehor?

[_Chap]

Oh please........

Hey everyone, looks like The Nehor has some information about what this poster has written that we're not privy to. Can't wait to hear it.

There are, as always, things that can't be talked about on this board in order to protect individual privacy, but if you knew them, you'd agree that the Church would be perfectly in the right to ex the sorry asses of every 'Middle Way' crypto-apostate they can smoke out! (of course the Church is always perfectly in the right.)

There's things going on like .... well, I just don't want to say them here, 'counta it wouldn't be right on a board that kids might read. But you get the message I'm sure, brothers and sisters!

[_RockSlider]

A topic close to my heart (timpanogos here)

gwald posted a brothers email with more discussion here for anyone interested:

http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtop ... highlight=

[_Yoda]

I just saw this post on StayLDS (referred to it by John Dehlin). There is a group of "middle way" Mormons in the Logan area who LDS considers to be a threat to the church.

And rightly so.

How are they a threat to the Church?

Do you consider me to be a threat to the Church? I know that my Bishop doesn't.

[_Kishkumen]

Here is the letter he wrote to his brothers:

ell boys, let me just say, that which ever one of you or you's that called my Stake President, is a douche bag. Here is my number 541-xxx-xxxx. Maybe if you would take the time to talk to me more than once a year or once every two years, you might know me a little bit better. You have done a great injustice. At least one of you owe me an apology.

You know, I have struggled with this religion and have doubts. I doubt. I lack faith. You all do to - you just won't admit it. I cannot believe my being honest about my lack of faith is a threat to you and your faith. Is it really? I guess I should thank you, I got released from my FOUR branch callings, and my ONE Stake calling. Of course, my BP and our Branch is screwed now. We now will no longer be able to function in this area. My kids will no longer have a primary and scouting program. Thank you for that douche bag - and why? because I doubt, and I was STUPID enough to discuss it with you - to bear my soul in a letter about my frustration and doubts and struggles to have faith in this church. I thought maybe since I can't talk about doubt at church, that at least I could talk about it with family. I am a fool to trust you. I went 15 years here in this branch, keeping my mouth shut and nodding at the right time and doing what I had to get a temple recommend so the Stake Pres. could give me certain callings, and to reconcile my differences with the church and not bring people down and destroy other people faith. I stuck around to help serve these people and attempt to keep my family intact and give them the chance to have the benefits of the church that I grew with - and now I have been labeled an member of an some "apostate Middle Way movement" from Preston that I don't know anything about, and am going to church court for it. Because I have doubts. You guys, or guy, are unbelievable. What a douche bag. You don't know me, and you had no right.

You want me out of the church because I don't believe like the mainstream? You think it would be better for me to go through church court of love and lose everything, so I might regain faith? Maybe you are correct - maybe I am just not welcome here. Unbelievable what you have done.

I don't believe in a "Middle Way" either. I believe in "My Way", which is neither middle nor extreme. I want and intend to die a member of the LDS Church. I'm just trying to figure out everything possible in a way that makes sense to me, and I have faith God will continue to help me do that. I'm not part of an online movement or any other type of movement - and I am pretty sure I'm no different than you ( Bishops, Relief Society Presidents, Elder Holland, Pres. Uchtdorf, etc.) in that regard.

Let me just end here with a quote from a great prophet, and than tell you, whoever it was, to go to hell and leave me alone. Yeah, on second thought, don't call me. Don't even respond to this email.

"... If someone can find something in the Book of Mormon, anything that they love or respond to or find dear, I applaud that and say more power to you. That's what I find, too. And that should not in any way discount somebody's liking a passage here or a passage there or the whole idea of the book, but not agreeing to its origin, its divinity. ...

"I think you'd be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we're not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction. ... We would say: "This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I'm going forward. If I can help you work toward that I'd be glad to, but I don't love you less; I don't distance you more; I don't say you're unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can't make that step or move to the beat of that drum." ... We really don't want to sound smug. We don't want to seem uncompromising and insensitive". --Jeffrey Holland

Don't call me.

[_bcspace]

A topic close to my heart (timpanogos here)

gwald posted a brothers email with more discussion here for anyone interested:

http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtop ... highlight=

Interesting stuff. I would like to exercise righteous judgement since it seems I may be confronted with this issue soon. Have any of you anything to say on behalf of the "Middle Way"? Does it represent a struggling to find faith in the truth claims of the Church or does it represent an actual decision of unbelief? While it may be more of a philosophical idea than a physical entity now, I can see it becoming a physical identity really fast with or without a "crackdown" because these people can easily find each other and collaborate (don't worry, I believe in easy and relatively unrestricted communication).

What is the difference between me and the "Middle Way"? I don't accept some doctrines (global Flood, continents being together until shortly after the Flood, etc.). I have expressed the same to those with whom I serve without negative consequence. Yet the extent of my disbelief doesn't seem to include any core doctrines such as Book of Mormon historicity nor does it seem to lead to a disbelief in the overall notion that the LDS Church is the only true Church and guided by God.

Speak. I am listening.

[Guest]

He also shared this little tidbit that provides some insight into attitudes toward those who follow the "middle way" approach to membership:

But the whole thing is not a good development for NOMs, and the fact that my family 700 miles away turned me in is very disturbing. I did receive another email from my brother back in Idaho about this Middle Way movement that my SP brother is dealing with, and even though his email was positive to me, he ranted and raved for two pages about the evils and dangers of the "middle way philosophy and the StayLDS website --- pretty well compared it and other sites like it as "Roads to Damascus that will lead one slowly, very slowly down to hell."

The mainstream church does not have much respect or use for NOMs and DAMU type websites. We are a threat, and I fear my story is not going to be the last - and I would be very cautious if you are a active member and NOM in the Cache Valley area.

This guy has quite an interesting "brother":

From my brothers email yesterday, he pretty well describe the StayLDS website as anti-mormon and apostate, and that he and my SP brother has read some of the stuff that I have written on the forums. So pretty well I am being monitored by family and that they consider my activities on the web as apostate, AND obviously - they are going to report my activities to my SP, as they have demonstrated this week. NOM website was never mentioned, but.....

[_bcspace]

I went 15 years here in this branch, keeping my mouth shut and nodding at the right time and doing what I had to get a temple recommend so the Stake Pres. could give me certain callings, and to reconcile my differences with the church and not bring people down and destroy other people faith. I stuck around to help serve these people and attempt to keep my family intact and give them the chance to have the benefits of the church that I grew with - and now I have been labeled an member of an some "apostate Middle Way movement" from Preston that I don't know anything about, and am going to church court for it. Because I have doubts. You guys, or guy, are unbelievable. What a douche bag. You don't know me, and you had no right.

If this were true and there are no other unstated issues, I see no reason to excommunicate. If the guy serves well in callings and does not sow doubt and disbelief and teaches the accepted doctrine, then we have a John 7:17 situation which is not a bad situation to be in.

[_Kishkumen]

Bc, you are a long way from being a "middle way" Mormon. I think the middle way is populated by those who have serious issues with belief or the authority of the church. They don't intend to cause trouble or become a kind of fifth column, but they do yearn for a more accepted place in the LDS Church. I think a number of them long to be Mormons in the way some people are Reform Jews or lazy Catholics. Belief and practice are not as important as culture and heritage, although it is problematic to generalize too much. I think some of them do believe deeply in the fundamentals of Mormonism, but they are quite heterodox about a number of doctrines and may even contest the importance of doctrine within the Church.

Interesting stuff. I would like to exercise righteous judgement since it seems I may be confronted with this issue soon. Have any of you anything to say on behalf of the "Middle Way"? Does it represent a struggling to find faith in the truth claims of the Church or does it represent an actual decision of unbelief? While it may be more of a philosophical idea than a physical entity now, I can see it becoming a physical identity really fast with or without a "crackdown" because these people can easily find each other and collaborate (don't worry, I believe in easy and relatively unrestricted communication).

What is the difference between me and the "Middle Way"? I don't accept some doctrines (global Flood, continents being together until shortly after the Flood, etc.). I have expressed the same to those with whom I serve without negative consequence. Yet the extent of my disbelief doesn't seem to include any core doctrines such as Book of Mormon historicity nor does it seem to lead to a disbelief in the overall notion that the LDS Church is the only true Church and guided by God.

Speak. I am listening.

[_truth dancer]

What strikes me as odd is that many apologists most certainly do not embrace the teachings of the LDS church, cast aside many doctrines, and downgrade a prophet to a nice guy sharing an opinion or two.

Will they be called in?

BC, why do you think this may be of import to you?

I have heard rumblings in my area of a movement to form in real life "cultural" Mormon groups; my understanding is that these groups are for those members and former members who like some aspects of the LDS church or community but do not buy into many of its doctrines and claims. I do not want to say much more that this in case things are heating up which it seems they are.

Personally, I have no desire to be a part of anything Mormon so am not inclined to participate in such a group however, I do feel it is great for everyone to have a place they can go to worship as they wish. I'm guessing that many of the NOM folk would not care much about their membership one way or the other. In other words, when one doesn't believe in the authority of the LDS church, the church no longer has any power over her/him.

I think the idea that the church can dictate to its members how, where, or what one discusses regarding their personal spiritual beliefs really crazy!

~td~