Defenders, please show me real examples of "persecution"

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Hello Scottie,

Where did this thread turn into "OH YAH?" etc.. ??

And here...

Consiglieri,

Seems no different than LDS Inc only hiring temple recommend carrying Mormons.

Is LDS Inc persecuting other religion by not hiring them??

So what do you think Scottie? Is LDS Inc discriminating and persecuting other religions by only hiring Mormons to work for them???

[_consiglieri]

That sucks consig.

It's funny how things can rile me more when they happen to somebody I love rather than to me personally.

I do want to make clear that, by posting this, I am not trying to imply that the Mormon Church has not been guilty of similar prejudice.

I am simply responding to the original post that asked for documentation of modern day "persecution" against Mormons solely because they are Mormons.

I think this fits.

And it also goes to show, perhaps, that early Mormons were not persecuted solely because of "distinctive" religious tenets that are no longer practiced.

There is just something threatening about the "other" moving into "our" community and taking up residence.

I think Mormons should just be glad the ATF didn't exist in 1844.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Scottie]

Consiglieri,

Mormon scouts is open to outsiders as well and LDS Inc uses this to pull in young converts. Is that wrong?

I guess you understand why I am happy that my daughters are no longer part of the Mormon church. LDS theology is not for strong willed women.

I guess the bind you are in is you see the damage LDS Inc is causing your family but you cannot leave.

I am sure others will use this to futher retain not only her in the cult but many others.

This "persecution" will be taken as a sign that Mormonism is of god.

Soo.... don't condemn the bad actions by bigoted camp leaders? Instead, blame the LDS cult for being a cult and Consig for keeping his children in the LDS cult???

Is anything NOT the fault of the LDS church?

[_Scottie]

So what do you think Scottie? Is LDS Inc discriminating and persecuting other religions by only hiring Mormons to work for them???

Of course they are. All the time.

I was simply calling it that you weren't really intested in hearing how people were persecuted. You just wanted an excuse to scream, "OH YA??? WELL THE CHURCH DOES IT TOO!!!"

Or, even lower than that, "WELL, YOU WOULDN'T BE PERSECUTED IF YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN WEREN'T IN THE LDS CULT!!! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!"

[_Polygamy-Porter]

That sucks consig.

It's funny how things can rile me more when they happen to somebody I love rather than to me personally.

I do want to make clear that, by posting this, I am not trying to imply that the Mormon Church has not been guilty of similar prejudice.

I am simply responding to the original post that asked for documentation of modern day "persecution" against Mormons solely because they are Mormons.

I think this fits.

And it also goes to show, perhaps, that early Mormons were not persecuted solely because of "distinctive" religious tenets that are no longer practiced.

There is just something threatening about the "other" moving into "our" community and taking up residence.

I think Mormons should just be glad the ATF didn't exist in 1844.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

To most other xtians, Mormonism is a cult with one goal of recruiting more members.

For the most part that is true.

I know many Mormons who are nice people. HOWEVER, as soon as any of them start in with their missionary opportunities I am relentless and make it a point to discredit them and embarrass them.

I am sure your daughter is a nice person and a hard worker. But c'mon Consiglieri, she is a Mormon, and Mormons are strongly encouraged to do what?

[_consiglieri]

So what do you think Scottie? Is LDS Inc discriminating and persecuting other religions by only hiring Mormons to work for them???

Can we change the scenario a bit?

I think no church administration is discriminating by hiring only members from their denomination.

But what if the LDS Church had a horse camp. (I think they do have a number of camps here and there.)

And what if they opened the camp to members of all denominations, and even those with no denomination, all of whom paid a fee to the camp/church for attending?

And what if they had a program for youth who had attended and learned the system to apply to be counsellors?

Now, under those circumstances, would it be discrimination for the LDS Church to reject an application from a young Baptist who wanted to be a counsellor at the horse camp solely because of their religious beliefs?

I think the answer would be yes.

I am interested in hearing what others think, though.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

P.S. It also occurs to me that there was nothing on the application itself limiting the ability to apply to members of a certain denomination or adherents to a certain set of beliefs.

And I want to make it clear that my daughter was not rejected because she didn't belong to the Free Methodist denomination. It was because she didn't have the "right" beliefs, although the letter did not specify what beliefs she held that disqualified her.

[_Blixa]

Surely there must be a law preventing this kind of thing, right? Isn't religion a protected class that can't be discriminated against?

Hi, Scottie!

I have tried to look at it from the camp's point of view. I am sure they don't want campers sent there by their parents to be taught the "wrong" beliefs by a rogue Mormon counsellor.

(Although this was not mentioned in the letter.)

On the other hand, this is a camp that is open to the public at large. Campers from all denominations are welcome to attend, as evidenced by the fact that my daughter has been going there for years.

Also, counsellors are not there for religious instruction, but to help campers learn the ropes of horseback riding.

I also felt this letter had lawsuit written all over it, especially because it goes out of its way to single out my daughter's religious beliefs as the sole reasons for her not being accepted.

Now I have a confession to make.

We haven't shown our daughter the letter.

Right now she's dealing with a lot of issues revolving around her self-esteem and we didn't think it would be helpful to pile this on top of everything else.

She knows that she wasn't accepted, because all her friends who applied did get accepted and have communicated that to her.

But she doesn't know why.

At least not yet.

I do know that the primary reason for any lawsuit would be to have her accepted as camp counsellor. But I also know that by the time any such legal action were successful, she wouldn't want to be counsellor under those circumstances.

A bit of a bind.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Oh that is so hard, consig. I feel terrible for your daughter. She was treated in a very shabby manner. If I were her it would break my heart, so I understand why you've not told her yet. What a difficult position you are in!

I completely respect your reasons for not bringing a lawsuit over it, too. But I hope at least a strongly worded letter is sent in reply.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Soo.... don't condemn the bad actions by bigoted camp leaders? Instead, blame the LDS cult for being a cult and Consig for keeping his children in the LDS cult???

Is anything NOT the fault of the LDS church?

The camp is protecting their clients. As xtians they fear that a Mormon there may attempt to recruit the child of one of their clients.

I know that most Mormon suck at recruiting. Hell look at the material they are given. However the xtians see Mormons as a Satanic threat, just like LDS member see other religions.

[_MsJack]

Okay, PP. I'll play.

My fourteen year-old daughter has been regularly attending horse camp at a local facility run by the Free Methodist Church.

She has gone there for about five years now, several times each year.

She has progressed to the top level of horsemanship (Level 4), is very well liked and respected, and was encouraged by the lower level leadership to submit her paperwork to be a summer counselor.

My daughter submitted the application, together with glowing referral letters, a couple of months ago.

About three weeks ago, we received a letter in the mail.

The letter was signed by the upper level management, and while saying that my daughter has wonderful references and is indeed respected by the people who work at the camp, she was rejected for the summer counselor position, specifically stating it was only because of her beliefs as a Mormon.

What do you think? Does this qualify as "persecution"? It isn't tar and feathering, granted.

But sometimes things leave scars that never felt a wound.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Some questions, consiglieri:

(1) Is there any kind of religious instruction at the Free Methodist horse camp?
(2) Even if there is no direct religious instruction, do they consider the camp to be a sort of potential evangelization project towards non-Christians who attend there?
(3) Did the lower level leaders who encouraged your daughter to apply know that she was Mormon?
(4) Were your daughter's other friends who were accepted Christians of any kind?

Thanks in advance.

[_Scottie]

Consig, you have to consider the source.

PP has an anti-Mormon chip on his shoulder the size of Nebraska. Everything, it seems, is the LDS chuch's fault.

I don't think any rational person would blame you or your daughter for the incredible bigotry shown by these camp leaders.