Two steps backwards - Tad R. Callister

[_jon]

Effectively what Tad is saying is that God has created us with the ability to reason, to study, to think, to investigate, to use logic and evidence. But when we reach a decisive point we must reject these skills and use revelation. What?

I think what he actually means is that if you use your ability to reason, to study, to think, to investigate, to use logic and evidence, to decide upon Mormonism it won't work. To believe in Mormonism you have to throw these skills out of the window and rely upon what others tell you is revelation or what you self identify from feelings as revelation.

Hmmm...Mormon God likes to gamble doesn't He...

[_Buffalo]

Effectively what Tad is saying is that God has created us with the ability to reason, to study, to think, to investigate, to use logic and evidence. But when we reach a decisive point we must reject these skills and use revelation. What?

I think what he actually means is that if you use your ability to reason, to study, to think, to investigate, to use logic and evidence, to decide upon Mormonism it won't work. To believe in Mormonism you have to throw these skills out of the window and rely upon what others tell you is revelation or what you self identify from feelings as revelation.

Hmmm...Mormon God likes to gamble doesn't He...

In a nutshell, this ^

[_Jason Bourne]

But now I know The Lord of the Rings is scripture because it inspires me to do good and I feel the spirit when I read it.

But does it say nice things about Jesus?

No. But I thought Callister's point was if it made you feel the spirit or brought good into your heart it was from God. Maybe this was a bad example.

However that said, I think most of the bad points of the talk have been covered. The major issues that bothered me are:

1: First state the Book of Mormon must either be from God or the Devil. Since is says great things about Jesus and the devil would never do that it must be from God. Others have noted there are other choices here.

2: The idea that all the Christian sects are different because of all the differing interpretations and then using the childish hand easily poke holes in idea of the one or two circles. Just silliness for both of these.

[_Sethbag]

... It faced Moses as he was trapped between the Red Sea and the fast approaching Egyptian army. No doubt the powers of reason screamed "veer to the left or to the right," but the Spirit whispered, "March direct for the Red Sea."

How crude we humans are! Next time I am undergoing military training, and the sergeant wants me to yell out a fire order loud and clear enough to make sure my platoon hears and understands who the order is for, where the target is and what type of fire to use, while all hell breaks out around them, I shall politely inform him that this is not God's way, and I do not propose to follow his suggestion.

You know what they say. How loud should the orders be given during battle? Answer: louder than bullets. What an apt analogy. In this "battlefield" of life God supposedly chooses a method of getting his directions across to us that is at once hard to hear, easy to counterfeit, and ambiguous in meaning, such that it, even if heard, can be interpreted to mean a variety of things.

I've been saying this in my own way for years, and recently heard Matt Dillahunty say it particularly well in his own way on an "Atheist Experience" snippet on youtube: the raw, unvarnished ineptness of God's alleged methods of communicating with his creations render the claims so absurd as to constitute a nail in the coffin of Christian belief. Once the scope and breadth of these claims are truly understood, they should be impossible to take seriously.

[_Dr. Shades]

Apparently the Book of Mormon is true because...it says good things about Jesus. That's it! Apparently if you say good things about Jesus it must be good and 100% true. Ignore any other historical problem, DNA, horses, steel, etc.. No sir, it says good things about Jesus, therefore it's the word of God.

For those who follow the Spalding/Rigdon theory, that was apparently Rigdon's justification for fabricating false scripture in order to establish Mormonism in the first place. His method by which he assuaged his guilty conscience, if you will.

(In fact, in Moroni 7:16 he hints at exactly that: For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.)