MsJack and the future of FARMS

[_Kishkumen]

My hope is that the next generation of Mormon Studies scholars will help non-LDS people understand Mormonism better, such that it will be less vulnerable to ignorant prejudice.

Hey, I can always dream.

Aren't all religions subject to ignorant prejudice?

Aren't all people liable to it if not vigilant?

[_why me]

What do you guys think? Agree or disagree? Have the hen house antics left the Mopologist a barren field, despite being plowed so many times?

Actually, just the opposite. First, there is the FAIR journal. But there will be another FARMish journal too. It just will take a little while to organize it and develop a format. My guess will be along an internet journal accessible to all, depending on donations to function. But it will be hard hitting giving the critics a wonderful opportunity to whine about tone as the critics own tone continues to be awful and disgusting.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Get this poltic crap off my thread! Post Haste!

[_Doctor Scratch]

Look what has happened to the two people who did have the correct training. David P. Wright had great potential to do apologetics and even started writing some stuff for FARMS in the early days. But, he was honest in analyzing Mormon scripture and was rewarded with excommunication. David Bokovoy wasn't even let in the door, BYU slammed it in his face before he arrived. I think he realizes the problems with doing apologetics in a Mormon context as a biblical scholar and has pretty much sworn off the whole enterprise.

The one wild card is Maklelan. He's not fully trained up yet, but my guess is that BYU will take even less kindly to his ideas than they do to Bokovoy's.

There are far more LDS with "correct training" who have been shut out than just Bokovoy and Wright. Promising LDS scholars are routinely discouraged from studying grad-level Biblical criticism. As for Maklelan: I'll just repeat what I've already been told + what I've observed/heard--yes, he's a possibility as far as the Mopologists are concerned, but I don't think the institutional Church will ever want anything to do with him. I'll admit that I've teased him rather mercilessly about his past forgery, but the truth is that my comments have zero weight compared to what the Church and its representatives think. If Mak ever wants to have a career within Mormonism, this will always haunt him. He might be able to hang out with the Mopologists, but he will likely always be skating on thin ice withing the institutional Church.

[_Drifting]

What do you guys think? Agree or disagree? Have the hen house antics left the Mopologist a barren field, despite being plowed so many times?

Actually, just the opposite. First, there is the FAIR journal. But there will be another FARMish journal too. It just will take a little while to organize it and develop a format. My guess will be along an internet journal accessible to all, depending on donations to function. But it will be hard hitting giving the critics a wonderful opportunity to whine about tone as the critics own tone continues to be awful and disgusting.

Will the Church officially disavow its contents, like it does currently?

[_TrashcanMan79]

I'll admit that I've teased him rather mercilessly about his past forgery....

I've somehow managed to miss this. What forgery?

[_palerobber]

Here's the problem in a nutshell: Mormons who do graduate level work in biblical studies almost invariably leave the LDS church. And, the few who stay almost always maintain their faith only by clinging to a very robust fideism, there really isn't that much of a connection between their scholarly work and their faith. But the bottom line is that neither of these groups will be doing apologetics for the LDS church based on some scholarly engagement with scripture.
[...]
The end result is clear, no one is left to defend Mormon scripture, which was the primary purpose of FARMS.

i don't understand how you get to this conclusion. you write as though biblical studies phd's are the only potential candidates for future work in FARMS. but from discussions on other threads i thought that practically none of the current FARMS people have such a background. so why would it be needed in the next crop?

(forgive my ignorance -- i'm just a curious outsider in this realm)

[_Aristotle Smith]

i don't understand how you get to this conclusion. you write as though biblical studies phd's are the only potential candidates for future work in FARMS. but from discussions on other threads i thought that practically none of the current FARMS people have such a background. so why would it be needed in the next crop?

(forgive my ignorance -- I'm just a curious outsider in this realm)

Suppose you want to defend Mormon scripture. What's the most relevant degree to get? Basically you have three choices: Meso-American anthropology/archaeology, Egyptology, and Biblical Studies. So, the next generation that wants to do this is going to get degrees in one of those three fields. I doubt many are deciding that the best way to defend Mormon scripture is by getting a degree in law or chemical engineering.

But I think even FARMS themselves realized this, that they couldn't keep defending scripture without the talent in the requisite fields. That's why John Gee had a job waiting for him before his dissertation was done, because he would have the requisite Ph.D. in Egyptology that FARMS/BYU needed. That's why there was a lot of hope invested in David Bokovoy. They wanted and needed this. But for the most part, that generation of scholars never materialized, for the reasons I outlined above.

However, I do think that the reorganized NAMIRS will continue to pull people in from all different fields of academia, mainly because they will be giving up on defending Mormon scripture in favor of a nebulous "Mormon Studies." Since it's such a nebulous term, just about anyone with a Ph.D. in anything can lay claim to contributing to part of "Mormon Studies."

[_palerobber]

thanks for the explanation.

but let me ask you one more question:
if everything goes as you've said and this next generation with relevant training doesn't materialize, do (1) the people running and (2) the people sponsoring FARMS prefer to pack it in, or do they "go to war with the army you have"?

[_Bob Loblaw]

However, I do think that the reorganized NAMIRS will continue to pull people in from all different fields of academia, mainly because they will be giving up on defending Mormon scripture in favor of a nebulous "Mormon Studies." Since it's such a nebulous term, just about anyone with a Ph.D. in anything can lay claim to contributing to part of "Mormon Studies."

The apologetic effort will survive. There will always be the Jeff Lindsays and Kerry Shirts of the world. And there will also be more Schryvers, Droopy's, and Pahorans.