BartBurk wrote:I accept the Mormon explanation that this does not refer to the Catholic Church -- that's why the LDS Church forced Bruce R. McConkie to take this out of McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine".
Really?
What other church could it have been? Here is what the text says about the Bible:
1 Nephi 13:28 28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
What other church controlled the contents of the Bible, and had the opportunity to change it prior to the "great apostasy"?
That was nothing more than a PR move, plain and simple. The scripture is clear.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
BartBurk wrote:I accept the Mormon explanation that this does not refer to the Catholic Church -- that's why the LDS Church forced Bruce R. McConkie to take this out of McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine".
Really?
What other church could it have been? Here is what the text says about the Bible:
1 Nephi 13:28 28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
What other church controlled the contents of the Bible, and had the opportunity to change it prior to the "great apostasy"?
That was nothing more than a PR move, plain and simple. The scripture is clear.
It depends when you believe the Catholic Church actually began. If you believe the Catholic Church actually began right away then it would definitely be the Catholic Church. If you believe the Catholic Church really wasn't established until the time of Constantine (which is the view of some Mormons at least) then it is just a matter of apostate Christians. I refer you to Robinson's essay which at least details possibilities which don't make the Catholic Church the great and abominable church. There were actually many forms of Christianity existing between the death of the apostles and the ultimate reign of the Catholic Church:
"I am a Catholic priest. I am wondering how Mormons really regard us.
Very well actually.
They seem to be trying to cultivate good relations with the Catholic Church, but is this just a PR move? Reading some of the comments here I am appalled at how their missionaries act in predominantly Catholic countries. So what do they really think of Catholics and our Church?"
The Catholic church itself is not true and God authorized but we feel the same way about every other church too.
"I am a Catholic priest. I am wondering how Mormons really regard us.
Very well actually.
They seem to be trying to cultivate good relations with the Catholic Church, but is this just a PR move? Reading some of the comments here I am appalled at how their missionaries act in predominantly Catholic countries. So what do they really think of Catholics and our Church?"
The Catholic church itself is not true and God authorized but we feel the same way about every other church too.
It does seem to me that it is not the Mormons who are trying to make the Catholic Church into the Whore of Babylon. It is more likely those who are either ex-Mormon or fervent Catholic and Protestant apologists who are trying to defame the LDS Church by insisting Mormons believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.
I don't hold a view that a Catholic running mate transforms Mormonism into a Christian religion, cuz, it doesn't.
But who cares? A VP is just window dressing, unless he's a puppet master such as Cheney.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
BartBurk wrote:It does seem to me that it is not the Mormons who are trying to make the Catholic Church into the Whore of Babylon. It is more likely those who are either ex-Mormon or fervent Catholic and Protestant apologists who are trying to defame the LDS Church by insisting Mormons believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.
By quoting Mormon leaders and Mormon Doctrine.
You keep trying to weasel out of it stating that Ex-Mormons are the ones coming up with this claptrap. And then when Ex-Mormons quote your own doctrine at you, you excuse it by stating the doctrine isn't canonized or the person was speaking as a man or was simply uninspired.
Trying to nail down exactly what is Mormon Doctrine is like trying to catch a greased pig with your bare hands. Mormon Doctrine is whatever the Apologists want it to be.
And this is why people won't join your cult or don't trust you. Like sneaky politicians you never answer the real question, only lay blame or change the subject. Every year your Cult changes rules and doctrine subject to PR or money - which is real drive behind Mormonism.
BartBurk wrote:It does seem to me that it is not the Mormons who are trying to make the Catholic Church into the Whore of Babylon. It is more likely those who are either ex-Mormon or fervent Catholic and Protestant apologists who are trying to defame the LDS Church by insisting Mormons believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.
By quoting Mormon leaders and Mormon Doctrine.
You keep trying to weasel out of it stating that Ex-Mormons are the ones coming up with this claptrap. And then when Ex-Mormons quote your own doctrine at you, you excuse it by stating the doctrine isn't canonized or the person was speaking as a man or was simply uninspired.
Trying to nail down exactly what is Mormon Doctrine is like trying to catch a greased pig with your bare hands. Mormon Doctrine is whatever the Apologists want it to be.
And this is why people won't join your cult or don't trust you. Like sneaky politicians you never answer the real question, only lay blame or change the subject. Every year your Cult changes rules and doctrine subject to PR or money - which is real drive behind Mormonism.
BartBurk wrote: It does seem to me that it is not the Mormons who are trying to make the Catholic Church into the Whore of Babylon. It is more likely those who are either ex-Mormon or fervent Catholic and Protestant apologists who are trying to defame the LDS Church by insisting Mormons believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.
Bruce R. McConkie identifies it as the catholic church in Mormon Doctrine. My parents remember it being taught consistently when they were young. We can argue it was never official doctrine, but back in the day it was as official as anything else that was repeated over the pulpit as gospel truth. I'm sure many of the things taught today will be embarrassing to future Mormons, but right now they are the gospel truth and as official as any other doctrine. I find it hilarious that you try to blame ex-mormons and catholics for this. Don't blame the messenger. It's like when Joseph Smith blamed anti-morrmons for spreading false rumors about polygamy.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
BartBurk wrote:It depends when you believe the Catholic Church actually began. If you believe the Catholic Church actually began right away then it would definitely be the Catholic Church.
What do the Catholics themselves say? It seems they refer to Saint Peter as the original Pope. I believe they claim the organization in place at the time of the original apostles as their origin.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
BartBurk wrote: It does seem to me that it is not the Mormons who are trying to make the Catholic Church into the Whore of Babylon. It is more likely those who are either ex-Mormon or fervent Catholic and Protestant apologists who are trying to defame the LDS Church by insisting Mormons believe the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.
Bruce R. McConkie identifies it as the catholic church in Mormon Doctrine. My parents remember it being taught consistently when they were young. We can argue it was never official doctrine, but back in the day it was as official as anything else that was repeated over the pulpit as gospel truth. I'm sure many of the things taught today will be embarrassing to future Mormons, but right now they are the gospel truth and as official as any other doctrine. I find it hilarious that you try to blame ex-mormons and catholics for this. Don't blame the messenger. It's like when Joseph Smith blamed anti-morrmons for spreading false rumors about polygamy.
How long has it been since McConkie was slapped down for calling the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon? Over 50 years? At some point it has to be accepted the LDS Church officially has affirmed the Catholic Church is not the Whore of Babylon, but just a false church. Of course we Catholics say the same thing about the LDS. If the LDS Church thought the Catholic Church was true they would join it.