"It's Not Pertinent to my Salvation!"

[_Infymus]

A partial clip from something I posted here at MDB when I first started:

SNIP

I could no longer take it. I stood up, walked out and have never returned."

That was about 2002. What a shame that we silence those that could share with us those pearls that should not be cast before swine.

Excellent.

[_Tobin]

I disagree with the approach. I have sat in many meetings in which I have been ridiculed for explaining my insight into a certain scripture or event in Church History. I don't storm out. I just patiently and firmly state my view. I have been dis-invited from attending certain classes. In that case, I simply attend the sacrament and partake. If they wish me to contribute and return, they can invite me back. But, I've stated my view and they can discuss it with me any time they wish (often it happens when they come home teaching). I'm always available and willing to discuss it provided someone can behave themselves, are intelligent and reasonable in their views, and don't engage in personal attacks. If they can't be civil, I just ignore them and continue to express my point of view anyway.

[_RockSlider]

He sounds like quite an amazing and interesting fellow. Being the self-conscious person that I am, however, I don't know that I would have handled this situation as well as you did.

Oh I did not! I've never been more self conscience and uncomfortable in my life.

I think he enjoyed trying to send a message to the others, as they were obligated to treat us like kings.

[_Willy Law]

5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
.

What covenant did we enter into when we were baptized? I paid close attention a couple of years ago when my daughter was baptized. In her interview with the bishop she was never asked to enter into a covenant, there is no covenant in the baptismal prayer. Yet the church constantly throws around the term "baptismal covenants".

[_consiglieri]

I have gotten so sick of it, I have taken to responding with the question, "How can you be so sure?"

Don't keep us in suspense. How do they respond to that rejoinder?

The way most people respond to my questions.

With a confused look and a questioning smile.

[_consiglieri]

So a bit more on that basketball game.

He said he had two tickets and very much wanted me to go with him. I'm sports agnostic but we had developed a close relationship and I agreed. Levis and T shirt seemed appropriate for a BYU BB game, he showed up in this 40's suit, which he seemed to always wear. Part way down the Provo Canyon he pipes up, "Oh by the way, do you mind if we stop by a little reception before the game?" I did not think much of it at the time and agreed.

So, we walk into this building very close to the BB arena on BYU campus, and up rushes Merrill J. Bateman to us upon seeing us walk in the door. Hand on shoulder enthusiastically shaking Wayne's hand and welcoming him warmly. Bateman is in a Tux. It was an annual dinner that they put on for members of the Benson Institute before sending them off to the BB game. We are talking top of the line catering, and Tux level dress code. Remember here I am in Levis and a T-Shirt and Wayne in his 50 year old suit. My popper friend, me, a lot of very formal dress and some of the best food I've ever eaten.

I found out that night that my good friend was filthy rich. Members of the Benson Institute have donated very very large sums of money or property to the Church. In his case, he had owned a very large grocery chain in Arizona and had bought up lands and properties everywhere (like the old church he lived in).

I also found out that night that he had an unusual humor, but mostly such a humble loving man.

I miss you my dear friend!

I love this story, Rock Slider!

Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

Some have entertained angels unawares.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

What covenant did we enter into when we were baptized? I paid close attention a couple of years ago when my daughter was baptized. In her interview with the bishop she was never asked to enter into a covenant, there is no covenant in the baptismal prayer. Yet the church constantly throws around the term "baptismal covenants".

This is a very good question and one I think has become ingrained through repeated repetition.

There are no covenants associated with baptism, though I do remember the missionaries who taught me saying that when we are baptized, we promise to obey God's commandments and he promises to give us the Holy Ghost.

But really, this is just talk that has come to surround the ordinance to give it the required purpose.

If we strip all the talking points away, what really is the purpose of baptism, I wonder?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Doctor Steuss]

I have gotten so sick of it, I have taken to responding with the question, "How can you be so sure?"

Another question you might consider using as a rejoinder: "Is God's knowledge an aspect of His perfection?"


Be ye therefore perfect...

[_consiglieri]

That question is, simply put, "BRILLIANT!!!"


It is great to see you, Herr Doktor!

Viva la SSCE!

Captain Poopie Pants, away!

[_kjones]

To me, this is the most serious flaw in LDS culture. As a culture we value knowledge and expertise, but only insofar as such knowledge and expertise have practical application: plumbing a sink or wiring a house, doing open heart surgery, balancing the books or setting-up the IPO for a company you hope is going to score big-time. Anything else--besides of course Gospel knowledge, but then only the basics--is considered superfluous, and quite possibly dangerous.

In my view a very serious flaw....

I recommend McLemore's article in the most recent Sunstone. He sees the same flaw you do, and he makes a great case against this artificial limitation placed on people's spiritual maturity.

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/magazine/current-issue/

Very interesting article. Thanks.