More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
_EAllusion
_Emeritus
Posts: 18519
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _EAllusion »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
The exact reason why I posted the Garth Brooks lyrics.


You could go much darker very quickly. Country music is similar to hip hop in that it is heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by poverty. That's why those themes come up a lot. But in both cases, there's more to their genre than the extensive references to misogyny or alcohol use or celebration of being an outlaw you can easily find. The quality of music and writing varies as do the types of narratives.

Anyone who dismisses such a huge music genre, in either case, with such diversity is a philistine and probably an idiot.

Here's a wonderful country song Droopy no doubt identifies with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHAFmFsb9XM

Also, it's a dude singing about threatening violence against those he disagrees with politically. It's ironically quite anti-American in its attitudes. Does that earn Droopy's dehumanizing "Morlock" label? Of course not. Again, he probably identifies with it.

Droopy doesn't have a problem with celebrating redneck culture even though the parallels to what he's using such ugly language towards abound because why? I don't think the answer is all that difficult to figure out. But because of that, I don't think he can tell why this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLCqSMDEQsA isn't all that different in its message than this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKZqGJONH68

Obviously both genres have endless examples of quality music that has nothing to do with those kind of themes, but I guess its hard to know that if your experience with it is superficial and driven by distant criticisms written by political hacks.
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

http://rakemucker.com/history/south%20c ... 0state.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Code ... _States%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_powe ... ntry_music

God. Don't you just hate all those racists who live in South Carolina, and listen to country music? These Rebel Rednecks are classic good ol' boys who understand quite well that their skin color and trendy trailer park attitudinizing exempt them thoroughly from the kind of criticism they would receive were they of another socioeconomic background, or virtually any other non-minority background.

Image

V/R
Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_krose
_Emeritus
Posts: 2555
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:18 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _krose »

Completely literate Droopy wrote:... this semi-literate bore...

Perhaps you meant "boor"?

Unless you really mean you find him boring, which would be a bit strange.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_Doctor CamNC4Me
_Emeritus
Posts: 21663
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:02 am

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

krose wrote:
Completely literate Droopy wrote:... this semi-literate bore...

Perhaps you meant "boor"?

Unless you really mean you find him boring, which would be a bit strange.


No. He meant boor, it's just that he's a pathological Projectionatatist.

Image

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:Odd that you don't see Droopy ever complain about country-western music culture even though it has highly similar, dark themes running throughout a notable chunk of it.


Perhaps if you had ever paid attention over the last decade to anything I've ever posted instead of acting like a putrid little intellectual snob who's actual intellectual acuity, as is common with such people, leaves a great deal to be desired when actually contrasted in practice with the claims made for it from the high and holy great and specious soap box, you'd have known long ago that I can't stand country-western music and have about a five second tolerance time for it when surfing the car radio (or when anybody else does).

Why on earth would you have thought I would be into country-western music in the first place? Have I ever mentioned it? Have I ever claimed I had anything to do with it (I've made mention here numerous times regarding my love of jazz, jazz fusion, ambient, New Age, contemporary Celtic etc., but you apparently missed that as well)?

Its misogyny, outlawism, celebration of drug use, and glamorization of impoverished cultural attitudes is just as apparent.


Well, traditionally, it was a great deal of adultery, divorce, heavy drinking, and raising hell, so yes, you've got that right.

One wonders why hip-hop vexes him so, but country music listeners never seems to draw any ire. What could be the difference? Hmmmm.


While you're working on that "hmmmm" please be careful you don't move around too much and break that needle. You may have to reuse it. It's probably the case that its never drawn any ire because it has never come up in this forum. Never, to my knowledge. I have, however, been clearly critical, from a theological, psychological, and philosophical perspective, of hard rock, heavy metal of various genres (most prominently thrash, speed, death, and black metal), and much pop music generally.

If you've missed it E, that's no fault of my own.

I should mention that there is some country-western that I like, but its very little and very old. Roger Miller was great (King of the Road).

You really went off the road at high speed this time, E. I hope there was a guardrail.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

Did the links you posted have anything to do with White, Asian, Middle Eastern, Latino, or Mormon culture?


No, because the thread was on a gangsta rapper and his fan's vile abuse of a major conservative social critic who leveled legitimate and civil criticism at a blasphemous and crass attack on that which is sacred to others. I'll be happy to criticize any White, Asian, Middle Eastern, Latino, or Mormon who does the same (and I have, many times. I'd say about 97% of the leftists I criticize in here are white, but that only bothers other leftists ideologically until the skin color changes, and then...out comes the race card from the bottom of the deck. That is the classic debate circumventing technique of the Left, and is used so often because of its effectiveness so used. Yes, that effectiveness is emotional and psychological, not rational, but, well, that's the point).

And again, what was the POINT of you posting those links since I clearly have no idea what it was. I'd prefer not to have to venture a guess again.


The links were all to material, including the picture, relevant to the subject at hand. Are you even lucid, Cam?

Very Respectfully,


Pants on fire...
Last edited by Guest on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

We can keep doing this if your highly sophisticated intellect can continue to deny that your post was a shot at the many non-Mormon, non-Asian, non-Middle Easterner, non-Latino, non-White Off-Topic board participants that frequently post on this forum.


:question:
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

Since you clearly weren't addressing the White thug culture what culture, exactly, were you addressing, and since you brought up race and skin color, as quoted above, you tell me what it was about your post that wasn't addressing non-Blacks since The Game is, himself, Black. How is this not an example of your soft racism?


This is incoherent, and I'm not in the mood, at this hour, to make any attempt at a logical disentangling of such a linguistic ball of fishing line. What you appear to be saying is that any addressing of any aspects of black culture, in which negative criticism is present, is racially motivated by definition. That's the best I can make out of this.


To answer your question (see how this works?) I define Black Culture thusly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

Read all the citations.


Oh no you don't. I want your own conception, in a succinct body of statements or arguments, in your own words. That Wiki article ranges over the entire world on various continents and in various nations where black people are present. You trapped yourself in your own bigoted leftist ideological box canyon at the outset and you can't get out of it so easily.

You claimed I don't like "black culture." I ask "What do you mean by "black culture" and you duck and cover. The entire context of the thread, and the individual that is the subject of the thread, and the musical style and culture represented by that musical style, are uniquely American in origin and nature. So then, I'm speaking of "thug," "Hip-Hop," or "underclass" culture and its cultural artifacts in a specifically mid to late 20th century sociocultural setting.

Now, within that setting, what is "black culture"?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

krose wrote:
Perhaps you meant "boor"?


I did mean "boor," yes.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: More Underclass/Hip-Hop Barbarism on Parade

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:
You could go much darker very quickly. Country music is similar to hip hop in that it is heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by poverty.


Its also heavily influenced and consumed by people touched by vast wealth and fame, and is consumed heavily by both white and black middle class youth.

Pull the lever again, E. It was all lemons that time.

That's why those themes come up a lot.


Poverty (a relative concept, especially in America) is actually the least of the problems faced by many blacks living in the the inner city environments the Left has created since the mid-20th century.

But in both cases, there's more to their genre than the extensive references to misogyny or alcohol use or celebration of being an outlaw you can easily find. The quality of music and writing varies as do the types of narratives.


No kidding, genius. Boy, what would we do without sanctimonious liberals to be our conscience and out guide. Where would we be?

Here's a wonderful country song Droopy no doubt identifies with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHAFmFsb9XM

Also, it's a dude singing about threatening violence against those he disagrees with politically. It's ironically quite anti-American in its attitudes. Does that earn Droopy's dehumanizing "Morlock" label? Of course not. Again, he probably identifies with it.


Firstly, I've never heard this song, nor am I ever likely to listen to it. Secondly, as best I can tell, its almost solely the Left that threatens and engages in violence against its political opponents. Thirdly, here's some stuff I identify with. This is probably far too complex for you, E., but its an introduction to much of what I've been listening to since I was 19:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9xOomYyLI8

Some of Holdworth's best work was with Tony William's Lifetime, in the early seventies. Nobody that I know of was playing like this at that time.

Listen to the Mahavishnu Orchestra's The Inner Mounting Flame album (Youtube has the entire thing online). That is part of the signature jazz fusion style of the seventies that set the benchmark for much of what came afterword (as did the earlier Miles Davis, for whom John McLaughlin played before forming The Mahavishnu Orchestra). I also like straight ahead and avant garde forms of jazz, especially the more improvisational styles.

Droopy doesn't have a problem with celebrating redneck culture


CFR (you've now also gone, with so many others in here, well over the line of intellectual and ethical credibility, so to save yourself your going to have to pull a really big rabbit out of your dunce cap).

even though the parallels to what he's using such ugly language towards abound because why? I don't think the answer is all that difficult to figure out.


In point of fact, if you and your Morlockean comrades here were at all well read, you would understand that the inner city welfare underclass culture that I and many other conservatives (including black conservatives) ceaselessly criticize is, in a very substantial sociocultural and historical sense, black redneck culture.

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rednecks-Li ... 1594031436

White "redneck" culture is very similar, in core, defining characteristics, to black inner city underclass culture, even though different in style and expression in certain salient ways.

Your endless strawman smearing of my motives and character out of whole cloth are all the evidence anyone needs to conclude that you came into this discussion on fumes at the outset. But that is, of course, to be expected, given both the forum and the ideological make-up of the interlocutors.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
Post Reply