Why does the church want active non-believers?

[_candygal]

"Re: Why does the church want active non-believers?"

For their children.

I agree to a point. My question is then...why not keep the children of gay parents?

[_sock puppet]

"Re: Why does the church want active non-believers?"

For their children.

I agree to a point. My question is then...why not keep the children of gay parents?

Since November 2015, the LDS definition of 'bastard' is a child of a wed gay parent.

[_candygal]

And in November, 2015, the church reached a new low.

[_Gadianton]

I think it's a great question, Dark Helmet, and there is an answer.

The leadership is following a police state model. Since the Church doesn't really have the power to operate like a real police state -- and hope to God it never does because it will -- it has to be very good at implied threats.

My sincere belief is that the person you are talking about is somewhere on a gradient, and not so terribly different than the average member. As I've stated before, the LDS "testimony" is one of the most interesting and power social phenomena of our time. Unlike say, charismatic Christians, Mormons don't put many special effects into creating emotional experiences. Getting to together and getting emotional at F&T or singing "Called to Serve" in the MTC is about as intense as it gets, which is odd considering it puts more emphasis on grounding faith via anomalous experience than anyone else does. The temple, which you'd think would be super weird, is even pretty dry and business like. Very few get the powerful "witness" of the spirit when praying about the Book of Mormon. I've disagreed with my fellow skeptics many times when they argue that spiritual witness is emotion -- I don't think there is much emotion behind it because I think testimonies are "fish stories"; fabrications after the fact. The best psychological explanation I've read -- and I can't remember where I read this as it had nothing to do with Mormonism -- is the down-zipper phenomena. A group of adults together in a serious setting and if a zipper is down, there is an implied agreement to pretend not to notice. The person with the down zipper can't just correct right there and then and goes on as if all is well. Everyone thinks they are the one with the down-zipper.

Start with this basic foundation, and the guy who is in full disbelief but stays is understandable.

Of course, the way it's described in OP, that might be pointing out how inconsistent with it's stated objectives it is, and with that I'd definitely agree.

[_bcuzbcuz]

I think it's a great question, Dark Helmet, and there is an answer.

The leadership is following a police state model. Since the Church doesn't really have the power to operate like a real police state -- and hope to God it never does because it will -- it has to be very good at implied threats.

My sincere belief is that the person you are talking about is somewhere on a gradient, and not so terribly different than the average member. As I've stated before, the LDS "testimony" is one of the most interesting and power social phenomena of our time. Unlike say, charismatic Christians, Mormons don't put many special effects into creating emotional experiences. Getting to together and getting emotional at F&T or singing "Called to Serve" in the MTC is about as intense as it gets, which is odd considering it puts more emphasis on grounding faith via anomalous experience than anyone else does. The temple, which you'd think would be super weird, is even pretty dry and business like. Very few get the powerful "witness" of the spirit when praying about the Book of Mormon. I've disagreed with my fellow skeptics many times when they argue that spiritual witness is emotion -- I don't think there is much emotion behind it because I think testimonies are "fish stories"; fabrications after the fact. The best psychological explanation I've read -- and I can't remember where I read this as it had nothing to do with Mormonism -- is the down-zipper phenomena. A group of adults together in a serious setting and if a zipper is down, there is an implied agreement to pretend not to notice. The person with the down zipper can't just correct right there and then and goes on as if all is well. Everyone thinks they are the one with the down-zipper.

Start with this basic foundation, and the guy who is in full disbelief but stays is understandable.

Of course, the way it's described in OP, that might be pointing out how inconsistent with it's stated objectives it is, and with that I'd definitely agree.

The "down zipper"? It is a good analogy. it is that feeling, everytime I walk into a shopping mall, that I, in an almost immeasurable millisecond of insecurity, move my hand down to my pants zipper, to check that, yes, my zipper is up, or ¿Oh no, I have forgotten to zip up my pants and then quickly draw my zipper up (and hope that no one has noticed) that is the identical feeling when in any church meeting, "Will anyone notice that my testimony (witness) is somehow lacking?" "Am I saying the right words, appropriate to the situation?"

I was an active non-believer for a number of years. It was like being a popsicle in the sun. the heat made me disappear, but the sugar sweet flavour remained for many years. Finally, i stood there alone.No popsicle, no sweetness, just a stick with my zipper undone.