This is how society dies

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_Morley
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Morley »

subgenius wrote:
Morley wrote:
Frederick Douglass's Son Lewis Henry Douglass

Oh, you must be soooo right because Lewis joined 2 years after war started but only a few months after emancipation proclamation (that allowed blacks into military...hmmm an odd timeline for "evils")...but ok, his parents sent him to fight them evils.
(my bold)


You're seriously mocking calling slavery evil.
_Morley
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Morley »

subgenius wrote:
Morley wrote:
Frederick Douglass's Son Lewis Henry Douglass

Oh, you must be soooo right because Lewis joined 2 years after war started but only a few months after emancipation proclamation (that allowed blacks into military...hmmm an odd timeline for "evils")...but ok, his parents sent him to fight them evils.


I don't understand the condescending tone about "2 years after war started but only a few months after emancipation proclamation." What the hell?
_subgenius
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _subgenius »

Morley wrote:You're seriously mocking calling slavery evil.

No, not mocking calling slavery anything...mocking dolts who feebly prop up "parents sent them to fight evils of slavery".
You seriously think the North was fighting slavery for anything other than financial gain and to put the Southern states in their place? Yankees cared nought for the colored person...until it became necessary for them to spill their blood.
But please, spin it to fit your narrative here and now...especially if you're trying to register Democrat voters.
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_subgenius
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _subgenius »

Morley wrote:I don't understand the condescending tone about "2 years after war started but only a few months after emancipation proclamation." What the hell?

Because you have snidely conflated slavery with some sort of non-existent yankee love and respect for colored people, as if the war was some intentional step for recognizing colored people as "human".....which is wasn't.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent
_Chap
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Chap »

subgenius wrote: non-existent yankee love and respect for colored people,


Oh, I don't think many of the human cattle bought, sold, beaten, raped, torn from their families and worked to death by their owners in the southern states would have expected people in the north to love and respect them.

But I would guess that many of them were quite pleased to hear that there were at least some people up north who thought that they just ought to stop being property. I know I would have been felt that way, had I been in that position.

Wouldn't you?
Last edited by Guest on Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_canpakes
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:[Because you have snidely conflated slavery with some sort of non-existent yankee love and respect for colored people, as if the war was some intentional step for recognizing colored people as "human".....which is wasn't.

Shorter subs: "no white person at the time engaged the fight to end slavery on the basis of believing it was wrong."

; )

Some folks tell themselves rather interesting things to whitewash their bias and irrationality.
_huckelberry
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _huckelberry »

There was an abolitionist movement of some historical consequence. Ending slavery was important to a lot of people but not everybody.

Subgenius I expect some cynicism from you but I was surprised.
_Morley
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Morley »

Morley wrote:You're seriously mocking calling slavery evil.

subgenius wrote:No, not mocking calling slavery anything


You absolutely were. Go back and read what you wrote.

subgenius wrote:...mocking dolts who feebly prop up "parents sent them to fight evils of slavery".
You seriously think the North was fighting slavery for anything other than financial gain and to put the Southern states in their place? Yankees cared nought for the colored person...until it became necessary for them to spill their blood.


Of course part of the reason was economic. As it was in the South.

But abolition was also a reason. There were whites and blacks, both North and South, who cared a great deal about ending slavery. I purposely chose Douglass to represent the fact that abolition wasn't an issue of (as you put it) [white] Yankees caring "for the colored person." That the phrase "John Brown's body lay a moldering in the grave" was the basis for the Northern rallying song of War (The Battle Hymn of the Republic) speaks to this.

subgenius wrote:But please, spin it to fit your narrative here and now...especially if you're trying to register Democrat voters.


Since it was primarily Republicans who fought against and ended slavery, I not sure how this narrative helps Democrats. But maybe you'll tell me.
_Morley
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Morley »

subgenius wrote:
Morley wrote:I don't understand the condescending tone about "2 years after war started but only a few months after emancipation proclamation." What the hell?

Because you have snidely conflated slavery with some sort of non-existent yankee love and respect for colored people, as if the war was some intentional step for recognizing colored people as "human".....which is wasn't.


Where did I conflate slavery with "some sort of non-existent yankee love"?

Your phrase "intentional step for recognizing colored people as 'human'" is patently offensive.



I'll cop to a little snark. My apologies.
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_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: This is how society dies

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

ANYWAY.

I've been giving this a fair amount of thought since the impeachment vote is tomorrow, and then the Senate will just do away with it even though Mitt Romney is totes gonna be fair and impartial.

So, I was like, "Waitaminute. The 17th Amendment gives the electorate the right to vote for Senators." And then I was like, "Well, I listened an NPR piece about the Koch brothers, about a year ago, where those cats have as part of their platform to repeal the 17th amendment. Huh."

They literally have a platform, which requires strategy, which requires a plan, which requires action. They're very serious about this. Like. They're not damned around serious. So, I'm like how can they get it so it reverts to state appointment?

So, this is how I, as a Republican strategist would probably go about things - up front Ajax is a retard and you don't want to split this country apart for trade reasons (business above everything, amiright?!?!), but you do need to wage a coup.

A soft coup.

1) Gerrymandering is the key.

As discussed before on this board, NC has some of the most ridiculous gerrymandered Congressional districts. With just a little over 50% the Republicans can control, Congressionally, 10 out of 13 seats in the state of NC. Locally, my state has split Salt Lake county in half, ensuring 3 out of four districts will be red, and more often than not all four districts are red.

Think about this for a hot minute. If the state legislature is unrepresentative, and it is gerrymandering Congress, and it is appointing the Senate - what role do you play? There are 32 Republican states (state senates), that's 64 Republican Senators which would be appointed, which is three shy of a 2/3 majority.

https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_compos ... te_senates

What are the Kochs trying to do? Well, as Republicans make gains in state legislatures through serving corporate interests (they get massive campaign donations which is just a fact), and then use their legislative ability to write laws they'll carry out the hard Right's agenda (think abortion going away).

2) Stack the courts.

So, you think you can just fight bad legislation in court? Lol, no. You fight this in the court and either they've stacked them or the judges rule in your favour and they just try again and replace the judges for the next round. If it goes to the federal courts either they rule in their favour, or its litigated for so long the courts declare its too late to change.

3) Get your people into place.

I can't recall all the names the NPR piece did, but holy shitballs the Kochs have people EVERYWHERE. The VP, some of the cabinet members, and quite a few of the administration positions are staffed with the Koch brothers' people. Add key appointments to the Fed, key regulatory and oversight positions at the DoE, and a host of other federal departments like the EPA the coup is actually happening. This is some no-shit real deal Machiavellian soft coup stuff.

4) Control the data.

It should be noted the Republican strategist that designed the REDMAP gerrymandering initiative, I don't recall his name from the NPR piece:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REDMAP

has concluded the questions on the 2020 census should favour rural white citizens over others via intimidating minorities into not participating, which ensures census data would be skewed allowing for district boundaries to be further gerrymandered, as well as Electoral College votes, and federal spending to be apportioned favorably to Republican-held districts. I can't regurgitate all the nuance explained in the interview given it was so long ago, but after reading a few articles about the census recently they were right. The GOP is trying hard to get the census to be friendly toward people who support them.

It should be noted the Kochs are involved in all sorts of 1930's era Conservatism:

- 'right to work' laws
- tax cuts for the rich which not incidentally put something like a billion dollars in the Kochs' pockets
- anti Public Transit ballots
- no food stamps
- repealing the income and estate tax
- balanced budget amendment
- dropping Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA, the Department of Education, and all Federal regulatory agencies like the SEC and FDA and EPA and FEC
- anti-union measures

That's all I can really think of/remember right now.

One more thing, and this is actually a shoutout to EA because he has often mentioned the 'Overton Window'. The dude who came up with the 'Overton Window' co-founded a think tank (?) which basically advances BS policies little by little and who the “F” do they jump in bed with?

The Kochs State Policy Network.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackinac_ ... lic_Policy

How do you stop this? You can't vote them out, the gerrymandering and disenfranchisement ensure their minority has a majority of power. We have that here in SLC and experience this every two years (CHRIS damned STEWART). I think Ben McAdams is going to get lubed up and screwed hard this next round. The GOP already has $400k in their war chest.

So. Yeah. ANYWAY. I know I'm ranting like Kevin Graham right now, but we do, literally, have a lunatic in the White House that's literally advancing the Koch brothers' agenda, and I can't really see how we stop it. It's a slow-motion coup happening and it puts a lump squarely in my throat. Hrm... Maybe Ajax will get his RaHoWa after all if the Right moves too quickly. They'd be smart to take another 30 years to implement this because it seems to be working like a charm.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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