honorentheos wrote:Unless it's you deciding to circle file the report because everyone knows what's just and right, so why waste the time...
I think you know why the process has to be universal. It appears you don't know why people in possession of the evidence are (or can be) reasonable in reaching independent conclusions about what happened and what the appropriate consequences are. Investigators aren't gatekeepers to the truth. People who have handed over recordings to me don't need me to tell them what happened in the recording.
EAllusion wrote:It appears you don't know why people in possession of the evidence are (or can be) reasonable in reaching independent conclusions about what happened and what the appropriate consequences are.
Or, this isn't the original argument. The reason for respecting the process was the point from out of the gate. People are going to have opinions. The scientist speaking of probabilities and caveats almost always internally views the matter as more resolved than professional writings or utterances express on their faces. Or they lean more strongly in a direction in their privately held view. But they normally engage professionally in public for critical, valuable reasons on which the entire edifice of scientific integrity is based. There are examples from many different disciplines and walks of life.
In the original thread, I expressed disagreement with a premature statement Barr should be in jail on principled grounds. Moksha's reply didn't indicate acknowlegdement of the value of due process either. His third reply made a joking reference to jail not being a real threat to Barr since Trump would pardon him, anyway. But never did he present a serious reflection on why there is legitimate reasons for arguing against descending into the same mindset as the Trump rally crowd just because one feels they are justified and right so hyperbole, shmerbole. You made it into something else while here in his resurrection of the topic he assigned me as having argued against what I explicitly said in that thread. It's right up front at the link I shared. There's nothing to debate here.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Res Ipsa wrote:When our esteemed feathered friend used the word “ultimately” in his OP, I assumed that implied “after due process.” Was I wrong, my flightless friend?
I was not implying a penguin equivalent of "get a rope". Even on the southernmost continent we respect due process. I dimly remember Barr was seeking to have both Italy and Australia manufacture some evidence against Biden at the time. That seemed an activity outside the purview of the Attorney General.
As to Doc Cam's question, the Inspector General would be the other avenue for investigation. The trouble is Republicans will allow crimes to go unpunished for any and all Trumpians. So my questions are of a hypothetical rather than practical nature.
moksha wrote:Even on the southernmost continent we respect due process.
Do you accept immigrants from shithole countries? Asking for 331 million friends.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people, Jeremy.- Super Hans
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.- H. L. Mencken
Barr is scheduled to appear before Nadler's committee in the House next month. Should be extraordinarily interesting to hear him talk without a ventriloquist.
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization." - Will Durant "We've kept more promises than we've even made" - Donald Trump "Of what meaning is the world without mind? The question cannot exist." - Edwin Land
"He's just completely shocked. He, to a certain extent, falls into the same trap as an awful lot of people in seeing penguins as bipedal birds and seeing them as little people. They're not. They are birds and should be interpreted as such."
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth? ~ Eiji Yoshikawa
Thirty hours ago news breaks that all four prosecutors in the Roger Stone case suddenly quit because Bill Barr interfered to give Stone sweetheart treatment on behalf of Trump.
Now imagine that THIS is what followed.
All news networks immediately STOP covering the Democrat Primaries of the 41st most populous and 2nd most white state in America.
Instead, they bring in every available legal expert to drill into the public's consciousness that the country is now in a rule-of-law crisis.
By 10:30pm all television stations cut to an emergency announcement from Speaker Pelosi.
She gravely states that Trump's and Barr's actions have severely damaged the rule of law and that House Democrats will meet at 6am the following morning to decide on a course of action.
By midnight every single Senate Democrat officially calls on Bill Barr to resign with the same gusto and alacrity they did for Al Franken.
By 10am the next morning (Weds), House Judiciary has already voted to subpoena Bill Barr to appear before them the following morning (Thurs).
Barr's office is notified that since his actions are so egregious and damaging this is NOT a request.
The House Judiciary understands that the Attorney General is not a higher authority than it is and that Barr was previously found in contempt.
They contact the DC jail and let them know to make a cell available.
They tell Barr he will be taken into custody using their powers of inherent contempt if he does not comply with their subpoena. They tell him the jail is ready to accommodate him. The House Judiciary also subpoenas all four prosecutors who left the Stone case to appear before them on Thurs afternoon. Again, not a request.
By noon on Wednesday:
- Every Democratic State AG officially calls for Barr's resignation.
- Every Democratic governor calls for Barr's resignation.
- The New York and DC bars announce formal investigations into Barr's conduct.
By 5pm on Wednesday:
- At least 2000 federal prosecutors have signed on to a statement of no-confidence in Barr and demand his resignation.
- The ACLU calls on him to resign.
During this time, CNN, ABC, NBC, apologize that they're not covering the results of the Democrat Primaries of the 2nd whitest and 41st most populous state in America, but ... there's something MUCH BIGGER AT STAKE.
Bloomberg and Steyer and Billionaire Bernie put their money into YouTube and Facebook ads: "RED ALERT. THE RULE OF LAW IS DYING. Please call your Republican senators and representatives and tell them they WILL NOT GET YOUR VOTE unless they DO SOMETHING TO STOP BARR."
Now we're at the present time. Nearly midnight on Thursday morning. We could be at the tipping point. Barr is seriously considering resigning rather than be arrested the following morning.
Or we could be where we are right now, where we're all bemusedly reading THIS letter and wondering if maybe the House doesn't think Bill Barr's actions are that serious after all.
Anywho, Nancy Pelosi, along with James Comey, Dean Banquet, and a few other important figures in the country that are not Trump allies have spectacularly failed the nation in a specific way that has greased the slopes to where we have come and are headed.