It's Important to Know What You Don't Know

[MG 2.0]

Here is Peggy’s article again:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/10 ... vers-that/

Regards,
MG

Where does reporter Stack tell us who controls Faith Matters?

At the risk of your wrath (scary) by continuing to participate on your thread (but you asked a question…I’m assuming to me), the point is that she DIDN’T mention that the LDS Church has ANYTHING to do with the Faith Matters organization.

Would you not assume that if there was a connection SHE would be the one to point it out?

Where did you ever come up with the idea that the LDS Church controlled Faith Matters?

Still waiting…

Money trail? General Authority supervisor? Anything?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

This post from MG 2.0 caught my eye: viewtopic.php?p=2840428#p2840428…because of the claims it makes about an organization called "Faith Matters."

The ‘fluff’ is not connected with the church. It’s an independent group of like minded people. A support group of sorts.

Having gone through the exercise of trying to figure out what is "connected with" what in both the private sector and the world of non-profits, MG 2.0's led me to ask a question that I suspected he doesn't know the answer to: Who controls "Faith Matters?" After all, to know whether one organization is connected with another, one has to know who actually controls both.

With the LDS church, we know that the ultimate control is vested in a corporation sole, wholly controlled by the prophet. But just what does that man own and exercise ultimate control over?

You brought it up.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

I like many of the members of the Faith Matters organization based on their website photos. Many of them are familiar apologists who work for the new Maxwell Institute and I associate with more fair minded apologetics than, say Interpreter.

But I only just glanced at it.

Do you see this organization as a preferable way to approach and help people with issues/questions rather than the in your face apologists and hard critics duking it out and calling each other names, etc?

I see it as a positive move in the direction of helping people navigate their faith.

I would think that Res Ipsa, Marcus, and you might feel the same. If not, I would wonder why.

Res Ipsa, I’m just responding to posts others, including you, have made. I don’t see that as hijacking your thread.

Regards,
MG

I’ll have to look into the website more.

Just so we are all clear, is this thread about the lack of connection between these websites and the authority of the church? Everyone seems to be insinuating rather than stating it directly.

[MG 2.0]

Do you see this organization as a preferable way to approach and help people with issues/questions rather than the in your face apologists and hard critics duking it out and calling each other names, etc?

I see it as a positive move in the direction of helping people navigate their faith.

I would think that Res Ipsa, Marcus, and you might feel the same. If not, I would wonder why.

Res Ipsa, I’m just responding to posts others, including you, have made. I don’t see that as hijacking your thread.

Regards,
MG

I’ll have to look into the website more.

Just so we are all clear, is this thread about the lack of connection between these websites and the authority of the church? Everyone seems to be insinuating rather than stating it directly.

Look at the post just before your last one.

Regards,
MG

[drumdude]

I’ll have to look into the website more.

Just so we are all clear, is this thread about the lack of connection between these websites and the authority of the church? Everyone seems to be insinuating rather than stating it directly.

Look at the post just before your last one.

Regards,
MG

So we’ve established one of these sites absolutely is associated with the church, right?

Is it a stretch to think the church might be involved in the other? Both of the sites seem to shy away from explicitly telling visitors who they’re owned by.

[MG 2.0]

MG 2.0's led me to ask a question that I suspected he doesn't know the answer to: Who controls "Faith Matters?"

Answer?

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Talk about knowing what you don't know, here's the message i get when i put the Faith Matters foundation EIN # into a charity review site:

Faith Matters Foundation Inc. cannot currently be evaluated by our Impact & Results methodology because either (A) it is eligible, but we have not yet received data; (B) we have not yet developed an algorithm to estimate its programmatic impact; (C) its programs are not direct services; or (D) it is not heavily reliant on contributions from individual donors.

Note: The absence of a score does not indicate a positive or negative assessment, it only indicates that we have not yet evaluated the organization...

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/852759608

Huh. A 501 c 3 that in theory relies on individual donations, but TWO YEARS later, still can't be evaluated? Look at the reasons.

[Res Ipsa]

Where does reporter Stack tell us who controls Faith Matters?

At the risk of your wrath (scary) by continuing to participate on your thread (but you asked a question…I’m assuming to me), the point is that she DIDN’T mention that the LDS Church has ANYTHING to do with the Faith Matters organization.

Would you not assume that if there was a connection SHE would be the one to point it out?

Where did you ever come up with the idea that the LDS Church controlled Faith Matters?

Still waiting…

Money trail? General Authority supervisor? Anything?

Regards,
MG

Please, holster your weapons of mass distraction. So, reporter Peggy said nothing on the subject of whether there is a connection between "the church" and Faith Matters.

No. I don't assume anything about the reason a reporter doesn't say something.

Please, stop trying to change the subject. You know very well that I have never said or implied that the LDS church "controlled" Faith Matters. You made a claim, which you keep trying to run away from. You claimed "the church" has no connection with "Faith Matters." Given your 100% inability to provide any information about who actually controls "Faith Matters," I'll take it as a concession that your claim is a perfect illustration of what this thread is about: knowing what you don't know. And it is obvious that when you made your "no connection" claim, what you did not know is who actually controls "Faith Matters."

The Radiant Foundation is an illustration of why it is important to know what you don't know. I'm not finished using it because it is such a crystal clear example of the importance of knowing what you don't know.

What you, MG 2.0, don't know: (1) whether or not the COJCOLDS has any connection with Faith Matters; and (2) whether Faith Matters has an "authoritarian" structure. So far, the best you've come up with is a weak attempt to read the mind of a reporter on a subject she was silent on in an article: who controls Faith Matters?

[Res Ipsa]

So we’ve established one of these sites absolutely is associated with the church, right?

Is it a stretch to think the church might be involved in the other? Both of the sites seem to shy away from explicitly telling visitors who they’re owned by.

At this point I’d say it’s REAL stretch. Waiting for Res Ipsa to show the connection.

And I’m curious what he and Marcus think about this form of apologetic work vs. old style.

Regards,
MG

I'm 100% uninterested in your question. It's a big old board. Please start your own thread on the subject.

[MG 2.0]

I think I have a fairly decent handle on knowing what I don’t know, by the way. But in this particular case that YOU brought up I think it’s a bit disingenuous to just make stuff up without any direct evidence that knowing what you don’t know then acts as evidence for what you would LIKE to think.

Radiance does not by default…knowing what you don’t know…equal Faith Matters.

Apples are not oranges.

OK. I’m gone from this thread unless you call me to return.

Regards,
MG