Uniting America? Don't Count on it

[Some Schmo]

You aren't buying into a civil war, but voting for Thump is unforgivable. What's actually on the table for you?

All that means is that if I find out someone voted for Trump, I won't deal with them. It's a trust issue.

Also, noting a problem is occuring that is overtaking the left wing of US politics that is following a similar path the right took to give us Trump isn't bothsiderism. I don't appreciate where the right has gotten us but it isn't going to be better if the Democrats and progressives decide to follow a mirrored path. That is putting the lid on the coffin of liberal western democracy as we've supposedly championed it for the better part of the last century. It's ... Whew. I don't know why it's such a problem to pause a moment and reflect on that.

I just don't see the left behaving in the same way as the right. I don't see what they're doing as obviously existentially threatening like I do with the right. I can't get the energy up for what I perceive a lesser threat.

They're cancelling people who say stupid things? Universities are boycotting certain speakers? Yeah, it's getting out of hand, but it's a natural reaction to the blizzard of BS and shittiness coming from their rivals. I have way more confidence that can correct itself as more people realize it's going too far than people getting right about an entire worldview constructed from BS.

Honest question: what principle is behind your views as expressed in the post above?

Honesty.

[Icarus]

Dismiss opposing views with stereotype provided by the inside orthodoxy? Check.

WTF? You're not nearly as informed and witty as you like to think. There is no "dismissing" of your opinion with "stereotype" and what the hell does "inside orthodoxy" even supposed to mean and where do you see that coming from my post? This is the part where you go "Um."

Um..

Um, what? This was just you making a feeble attempt to equate both sides by throwing out an asinine assertion as if we're just supposed to take it for granted. I can't think of anyone on the Left who has tried to "dehumanize" Trumpers. You're trying to tell me you'd associate with just ANYONE no matter what their beliefs? With Trumpers it isn't just their beliefs, it is the fact that you already know they hate your guts simple for being a Democrat. That was the reason why I deleted a relative from Facebook two years ago. He spent days posting asinine memes that did nothing but belittle anyone on the Left, he even posted that Democrats are not real Americans. He did this knowing full well that I'm firmly on the Left and that I could see his posts. So why is it my obligation to treat these people with grace when they've already made it perfectly clear they have adopted a war mentality?

That's a bad read of what was said.

That is literally what you said. I was waiting for your evidence that the Left is no dehumanizing" Trump supporters and your follow up example was "Publicly advocating for economically unsustainable activities." Then you said the Left was "buying into the civil war" which is entirely wrong. People like me who choose to disassociate with racist pricks in the family, isn't the same thing as Trumpers stocking up on guns and ammo while advocating a coming war by their words and actions.

The political class pushing the most extreme progressive policies are doing so with similar motives as those who pushed to villianise government and attack liberal policies.

Ten years ago the idea that a man should be able to marry a man was considered one of the most extreme progressive policies. Just because you don't like said policies, doesn't make them "extreme." You sound like every ad I see for David Perdue and Big Bird who are trying to retain their seats in the Senate. Everything Biden says is described in terms of being the "radical left."

Some are diehard true believers but many know it plays well with their base even if it won't actually happen. And most know there are financial issues that would need to be considered and likely moderate the proposal.

Sounds like you really don't have any substance here, just your own psychoanalysis as to why people you don't like support what they claim to support. You haven't even provided a single example, just generalizations here.

It's pointing out you're walking the nation off a dangerous cliff in the opposite direction.

I blocked my parents on my daughter's Facebook after they posted their desire to see entire Muslim countries destroyed by nuclear weapons, and because I've done this, and because I've decided there are certain people who are too toxic to associate with after demonstrating that they have an entirely different concept of morality, in your opinion this means I'm "walking the nation off a dangerous cliff"??

[Some Schmo]

Nothing is going to get better until right wing media has an epiphany about the importance of facts.

So it'll either be when the pandemic wipes out right wing audiences, or never.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Nothing is going to get better until right wing media has an epiphany about the importance of facts.

So it'll either be when the pandemic wipes out right wing audiences, or never.

[Some Schmo]

I don't think it's an exaggeration to claim that if you voted for Trump, you are publicly declaring that honesty, integrity and character are unimportant in a world leader. All that matters is getting your way, no matter how many people you hurt in the process. A world leader can be an outright thug, a ranting baby, and a complete jackass, but as long as he gives you the illusion you saved a few dollars in taxes and pisses off libruls, he's aces with you.

Why would anyone in their right mind want to deal with someone who endorses Trump? I suppose some people like to live dangerously.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I was friends with a neighborhood activist where I live. He’s big into Chicano identity, but like a good percentage of them he leans pretty Conservative. I defended him publicly when he was accused of wrongthink by Leftists (real Leftists like Democratic Socialists), was arrested for activism, and whatever when he caught flack for going against the grain. We worked together to get the state to pony up for sound walls next to a poor neighborhood situated by I-80, to get cell towers into compliance within city ordinance, a linear park established, and some other neighborhood-activist issues.

And then the election happened.

It came out that he voted for Thumper, and *even then* I was willing to be a friend and ally.

And then the voter fraud BS happened.

He doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down about how Democrats were stealing the election, and like the idiot morons on this forum do, he neglected to read anything that went against his view. He was all in.

And I’ll never work with him again.

That crap is on him. Once you pass the ‘tear the Republic apart’ rubicon, we can’t be friends. It is what it is.

- Doc

[Some Schmo]

That crap is on him. Once you pass the ‘tear the Republic apart’ rubicon, we can’t be friends. It is what it is.

That's right. I didn't even mention the move toward authoritarianism. We're all supposed to ignore that and just get on with it, I guess.

[canpakes]

There is a mirrored problem on the left that is just running behind the right but doing its damnedest to catch up. Publicly advocating for economically unsustainable activities, behaving publicly progressive but privately pragmatic and excitedly attacking the opposition in ways that dehumanize them as well means we are creating left-wing equivalent of Trump supporters. And yeah, the OP is in that vein and it's wrong minded.

I get where you’re coming from with that paragraph, but the OP is comparatively mild, compared to some stuff I’ve seen over the last few years coming from the opposite side of the fence. There are also a lot of ‘we’ statements and far fewer ‘you’ statements, which at least acknowledges some responsibility for who is doing what.

As example, the OP does not single out the Right (generally) or Trump supporters (specifically) in the same ways that the latter groups often characterize the Left - as destroying the Nation, being communists, ruining their children, trying to ‘outlaw’ (their) religion or ‘taking away (their) freedoms’, etc., or otherwise pitching an aggrieved environment of subjugation and injury.

[Some Schmo]

I will also say for the record that I would be delighted if all of America could join hands and sing kumbaya, but it's not even close to realistic. It's not like I want to be disappointed in people, but when their behavior is so destructive and thoughtless, it's hard to simply go along with it without acting like a meek, abused spouse. I'm not demonizing Trump supporters; I'm saying it's a bad idea to trust them with anything important, given how poor their judgment must be.

[Icarus]

A typical political discussion Pre-Trump:

Mike: I think less government and fewer regulations is what works best for the economy in the long run, which is why I'm voting Republican.

David: I disagree. I think government needs to play a bigger role with a country that is expanding the way ours is. I also believe regulations are needed to keep corporations in check.

Mike: That's cool, we agree to disagree. Hey, you want to grab a bite to eat?

======

What I've experienced for the most part Post-Trump is something along these lines:

Don: I think the media is complicit with the radical left which is intent on destroying America. I also believe Muslims are a virus that needs to be eradicated and anyone caught supporting Democrats should be considered anti-American Socialists.

Joe: I think the media is doing its job for the most part by holding dishonest politicians accountable when they mislead the public. I also believe Islam is a religion with a lot of nuance very much like Christianity. There are good people and bad people.

Don: damned Liberal. If you don't like our country then you can leave.

Joe: (whispering to his kids) "stay away from Joe as much as you can."