Assualt weapons

[Guest]

It's interesting to me that as the facts have come out about the San Bernadino shooting, it hasn't really changed any minds or opinions on the left.

That's because you've got a predetermined narrative you're trying to jam the facts into.

It happened in California, a liberal state with very strict gun control.

No, not very strict. There are no states in the US with very strict gun control.

The attackers were both Muslim. ISIS claimed responsibility calling them martyrs.

ISIS would claim responsibility for the Titanic if it could. The social media declaration of allegiance to ISIS was done in the midst of the attack. There was no contact whatsoever with the organization prior to the shooting.

The woman immigrated to the US on a 90 day fiancé VISA.

All we can talk about are confiscating assault weapons and global warming.

Because the vast majority of the terrorist attacks in the US are carried out by right-wing white males. Gun control can frustrate all terrorist groups. Raging and belligerent bigotry against Islam just serves ISIS' own narrative and their recruiting campaign.

[_Themis]

Once again I can't say, other than I don't believe the thousands of people with conceal carries in Utah alone have any significant statistics showing they have been involve with unintended injuries from having carried.

I believe Mak has referenced information on the subject. Guns are dangerous. Having guns means increased chance of death. From what I see the increased risk from death is greater then the risk of situations in which one will be able to successfully and justifiably protect themselves with a gun. This is not an argument for no guns, but an argument against the idea of having guns for self defense makes you and your family safer. It might if you lived currently in Iraq or Syria.

[_Themis]

I see. Poor millennial sheeple, giving up person freedoms and relying on others doing the right thing and protecting them.

This could be the silliest statement on the thread. I don't see any good evidence to support the idea that people with guns are being needed to protect them or those who don't have a guns. Law enforcement is really how modern societies provide peace and security for it's citizens so they feel safe and can go on with their lives.

Couple more generations and that damned gun culture problem will vanish.

It is dropping in number. This is neither bad or good. I would like it to continue, but some of that culture needs to change in regards to gun control in the US.

[_Themis]

One more question, accuracy. It's not a done deal that having a gun as a concealed weapon means you can shoot well. (Excepting, of course Rockslider's hot wife. )

Even in the very very rare situation in which you might want a gun for self defense the likelihood of being successful may not be high at all. Accuracy is one problem. Being in the right position to use the weapon is another. Or if you lose the weapon to the person or person's you are confronting. What if you miss and hit an innocent, or if police or some other person with a gun mistakes you as the shooter. In many ways having a gun for self defense can give one a false sense of security.

[_Themis]

Because the vast majority of the terrorist attacks in the US are carried out by right-wing white males. Gun control can frustrate all of them. Raging and belligerent bigotry against Islam just serves ISIS' own narrative and their recruiting campaign.

This is the problem with many on the right. They have no idea how to address these problems, and will predictably make them worse. The amount of hate and intolerance will increase due to this attack which is directed at Muslims or people who many Americans think look like Muslims. This in turn fuels hate and intolerance from the Muslim community and other groups who many think look like Muslims. This can become a self fueling problem. It is predictable and what terrorist groups have been using predictably to obtain some of their goals. What better way to get more to your cause. How easy was it to get the West to invade places like Iraq that didn't even attack them which has created so many problems with terrorism today.

[_Lemmie]

One more question, accuracy. It's not a done deal that having a gun as a concealed weapon means you can shoot well. (Excepting, of course Rockslider's hot wife. )

Even in the very very rare situation in which you might want a gun for self defense the likelihood of being successful may not be high at all. Accuracy is one problem. Being in the right position to use the weapon is another. Or if you lose the weapon to the person or person's you are confronting. What if you miss and hit an innocent, or if police or some other person with a gun mistakes you as the shooter. In many ways having a gun for self defense can give one a false sense of security.

I agree with you completely. Accuracy in placing a shot is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all the elements that would have to be in place to successfully use a gun for self defense.

[_RockSlider]

I agree with you completely. Accuracy in placing a shot is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all the elements that would have to be in place to successfully use a gun for self defense.

So cowering underneath a desk, helpless waiting for you turn is a better choice?

[_RockSlider]

Actually, as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, it is a fact that has been demonstrated for decades that private gun ownership increases risk of death.

I have not bothered to respond to this line of thinking as with Kevin's conspiracy theory arguments, any one can counter every google search you are using to claim as true. It's a waste of time.

Note that Tator has already disproved your figures on the French and that America is currently at 3.6 per 100k and dropping not the 10 you fielded as the truth.

All I know is that the education and experience that came through 4 generations, and now being passed to a 5th of two lines of my family, there are zero instances of harm that has resulted.

I'm also unfamiliar with any gun owners that I have associated with over the years that have either.

Once again, there will always be those competing for Darwin Awards, It is not my business to try and legislate laws to try and keep them from winning one.

[_The CCC]

I agree with you completely. Accuracy in placing a shot is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all the elements that would have to be in place to successfully use a gun for self defense.

So cowering underneath a desk, helpless waiting for you turn is a better choice?

There are three things that are of paramount importance in shooting a weapon. Shot placement, shot placement, and shot placement. There is a reason for the (X) on target silhouettes. The bullets that miss their intended target still need to be accounted for.

[_Lemmie]

I agree with you completely. Accuracy in placing a shot is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all the elements that would have to be in place to successfully use a gun for self defense.

So cowering underneath a desk, helpless waiting for you turn is a better choice?

Legit question, so let's walk it through. If I'm cowering under a desk, I assume I am at work. I have a gun at home, but I don't have a concealed carry permit.

You may argue I could get one, but for the vast majority of this country, it is simply not possible to have a concealed weapon and go to work (for which I and about 4 million of my nearest neighbors cross state lines to do so), enter my children's school, etc.

And although your family is apparently rock-solid in safety issues, occasionally I'm a little forgetful, so do I keep a loaded weapon on my person where someone could die if I forget something? you know, the same forgetfulness that leads me to arrive home without the milk I was supposed to pick up, or the forgetfulness that leads me to misplace my phone daily.

Which odds are greater for me; harming, say, my own child, or killing a bad person in a shootout? I'm pretty risk-averse, so I will go with the sure thing, i.e. the 100% probability that if I'm not carrying a gun, I won't accidentally hurt my child (or anyone else) with the gun I am carrying.

You can't control everything, of course, but I'm a big fan of controlling what I can.