That's strange...the video you linked to has nothing to do with Charles Manson, unless you're suggesting Anton LeVay is Charles Manson. But that wouldn't make any sense, because Anton LeVay and Charles Manson are two totally different people. I'll prove it...
Did Charles Manson kill more or less people than the God of the Old Testament?
Sin kills people. People without sin cannot be killed. Jesus gave up His spirit. No one took it from him. Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands do I commend my spirit." Charles Manson will die. LaVey died a relatively young man from his own sin. Sin kills.
The following is what I understand 2 Samuel 12:1-31 to mean.
The Lord sent Nathan the prophet to tell David this story:
“There lived 2 men in a certain city, one rich, owning many flocks of sheep and herds of goats; and the other poor, owning nothing but one little lamb he had managed to buy. It was his children’s pet, and he fed it from his own plate and drink from his own cup; he cuddled it in his arms like a baby daughter. Recently a guest arrived at the home of the rich man. But instead of killing a lamb from his own flocks for food for the traveler, he took the poor man’s lamb and roasted it and served it.”
David yelled. “I swear by the living God, any man who would do a thing like that should die; he shall repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity.” It was at this point Nathan tells David, “You are that rich man! The Lord God of Israel says, ‘I made you king of Israel and saved you from the power of Saul. I gave you his palace and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah; and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more. Why, then, have you despised the laws of God and done this horrible deed? You murdered Uriah and took his wife.
As a result murder shall be a constant threat in your family (reaping what is sown) from this time on because you have insulted me by taking Uriah’s wife. I vow that because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man, and he will go to bed with them in public view. You did it secretly, but I will do this to you openly, in the sight of all Israel.’”
David confessed to Nathan that he sinned.
Nathan replied, “Yes, but the Lord has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. But you have given great opportunity to the enemies of the Lord to despise and blaspheme him, so your child shall die.” Nathan returned to his home. And the Lord made Bathsheba’s baby deathly sick. David begged God to spare the child and went without food, and lay all night before the Lord on the bare earth. The leaders of the nation pleaded with him to get up and eat, but David would not. After 7 days, the baby died.
David’s aides feared telling him seeing how distraught he was concerning the baby's health. They imagined that David might harm himself when told that the child died... However, David saw them whispering, and put 2 and 2 together.
“Is the baby dead?” he asked. “Yes,” they replied, “he is.” David got up off the ground, washed himself, brushed his hair, changed his clothes, and went into the Tabernacle and worshiped the Lord. Then he returned to the palace and ate. His aides were amazed. They couldn't understand that while the baby was living, David wept and refused to eat; but now that the baby is dead, David stopped mourning and began to eat.
David replied, “I fasted and wept while the child was alive, for I said, ‘Perhaps the Lord will be gracious to me and let the child live.’ But why should I fast when he is dead? Can I bring him back again? I shall go eventually to be with him, but he shall not return to me.”
David comforted Bathsheba; and when he slept with her, she conceived and gave birth to a son and named him Solomon. And the Lord loved the baby, and sent congratulations and blessings through Nathan the prophet. David nicknamed the baby Jedidiah (meaning, “Beloved of Jehovah”) because of the Lord’s interest.*
Meanwhile Joab and the army of Israel were successfully ending their siege of Rabbah the capital of Ammon. Joab sent messengers to tell David, “Rabbah and its beautiful harbor are ours! Now bring the rest of the army and finish the job, so that you will get the credit for the victory instead of me.” David led his army to Rabbah and captured it. David took the king of Rabbah’s crown—its weight being a talent of gold, and precious stones—and placed it on his own head. He made slaves of the people of the city and made them labor with saws, picks, and axes and work in the brick kilns; that is the way he treated all of the cities of the Ammonites. Then David and the army returned to Jerusalem.
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And Jehovah sendeth Nathan unto David, and he cometh unto him, and saith to him: `Two men have been in one city; One rich and one poor;
2 The rich hath flocks and herds very many;
3 And the poor one hath nothing, Except one little ewe-lamb, Which he hath bought, and keepeth alive, And it groweth up with him, And with his sons together; Of his morsel it eateth, And from his cup it drinketh, And in his bosom it lieth, And it is to him as a daughter;
4 And there cometh a traveller to the rich man, And he spareth to take Of his own flock, and of his own herd, To prepare for the traveller Who hath come to him, And he taketh the ewe-lamb of the poor man, And prepareth it for the man Who hath come unto him.'
5 And the anger of David burneth against the man exceedingly, and he saith unto Nathan, `Jehovah liveth, surely a son of death [is] the man who is doing this,
6 and the ewe-lamb he doth repay fourfold, because that he hath done this thing, and because that he had no pity.'
7 And Nathan saith unto David, `Thou [art] the man! Thus said Jehovah, God of Israel, I anointed thee for king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 and I give to thee the house of thy lord, and the wives of thy lord, into thy bosom, and I give to thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if little, then I add to thee such and such [things].
9 `Wherefore hast thou despised the word of Jehovah, to do the evil thing in His eyes? Uriah the Hittite thou hast smitten by the sword, and his wife thou hast taken to thee for a wife, and him thou hast slain by the sword of the Bene-Ammon.
10 `And now, the sword doth not turn aside from thy house unto the age, because thou hast despised Me, and dost take the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be to thee for a wife;
11 thus said Jehovah, Lo, I am raising up against thee evil, out of thy house, and have taken thy wives before thine eyes, and given to thy neighbour, and he hath lain with thy wives before the eyes of this sun;
12 for thou hast done [it] in secret, and I do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.'
13 And David saith unto Nathan, `I have sinned against Jehovah.' And Nathan saith unto David, `Also -- Jehovah hath caused thy sin to pass away; thou dost not die;
14 only, because thou hast caused the enemies of Jehovah greatly to despise by this thing, also the son who is born to thee doth surely die.'
15 And Nathan goeth unto his house, and Jehovah smiteth the lad, whom the wife of Uriah hath born to David, and it is incurable;
16 and David seeketh God for the youth, and David keepeth a fast, and hath gone in and lodged, and lain on the earth.
17 And the elders of his house rise against him, to raise him up from the earth, and he hath not been willing, nor hath he eaten with them bread;
18 and it cometh to pass on the seventh day, that the lad dieth, and the servants of David fear to declare to him that the lad is dead, for they said, `Lo, in the lad being alive we spake unto him, and he did not hearken to our voice; and how do we say unto him, The lad is dead? -- then he hath done evil.'
19 And David seeth that his servants are whispering, and David understandeth that the lad is dead, and David saith unto his servants, `Is the lad dead?' and they say, `Dead.'
20 And David riseth from the earth, and doth bathe and anoint [himself], and changeth his raiment, and cometh in to the house of Jehovah, and boweth himself, and cometh unto his house, and asketh and they place for him bread, and he eateth.
21 And his servants say unto him, `What [is] this thing thou hast done? because of the living lad thou hast fasted and dost weep, and when the lad is dead thou hast risen and dost eat bread.'
22 And he saith, `While the lad is alive I have fasted, and weep, for I said, Who knoweth? -- Jehovah doth pity me, and the lad hath lived;
23 and now, he hath died, why [is] this -- I fast? am I able to bring him back again? I am going unto him, and he doth not turn back unto me.'
24 And David comforteth Bath-Sheba his wife, and goeth in unto her, and lieth with her, and she beareth a son, and he calleth his name Solomon; and Jehovah hath loved him,
25 and sendeth by the hand of Nathan the prophet, and calleth his name Jedidiah, because of Jehovah.
26 And Joab fighteth against Rabbah of the Bene-Ammon, and captureth the royal city,
27 and Joab sendeth messengers unto David, and saith, `I have fought against Rabbah -- also I have captured the city of waters;
28 and now, gather the rest of the people, and encamp against the city, and capture it, lest I capture the city, and my name hath been called upon it.'
29 And David gathereth all the people, and goeth to Rabbah, and fighteth against it, and captureth it;
30 and he taketh the crown of their king from off his head, and its weight [is] a talent of gold, and precious stones, and it is on the head of David; and the spoil of the city he hath brought out, very much;
31 and the people who [are] in it he hath brought out, and setteth to the saw, and to cutting instruments of iron, and to axes of iron, and hath caused them to pass over into the brick-kiln; and so he doth to all the cities of the Bene-Ammon; and David turneth back, and all the people, to Jerusalem.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
LittleNipper wrote: Sin kills people. People without sin cannot be killed. Jesus gave up His spirit. No one took it from him. Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands do I commend my spirit." Charles Manson will die. LaVey died a relatively young man from his own sin. Sin kills.
Interesting comment. As far as I know (a lowly agnostic), everyone dies. Even Jesus.
If you know of someone that is immune to death, please pass that along.
The Mormon religion has a tale of the three Nephites that are supposed to live until the second coming of Christ (I think). They change flat tires for people and generally help with automotive problems.
I'm a little skeptical.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
LittleNipper wrote: Sin kills people. People without sin cannot be killed. Jesus gave up His spirit. No one took it from him. Jesus said, "Father, into thy hands do I commend my spirit." Charles Manson will die. LaVey died a relatively young man from his own sin. Sin kills.
Interesting comment. As far as I know (a lowly agnostic), everyone dies. Even Jesus.
If you know of someone that is immune to death, please pass that along.
The Mormon religion has a tale of the three Nephites that are supposed to live until the second coming of Christ (I think). They change flat tires for people and generally help with automotive problems.
I'm a little skeptical.
Jesus gave up His life. No one took it from Him. We have all sinned and have come short of God's glory. Luke 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.
LittleNipper wrote:Jesus gave up His life. No one took it from Him. We have all sinned and have come short of God's glory. Luke 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.
Do you have anything to back this up that doesn't depend on an a priori belief in biblical divinity? I'm guessing you don't.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
Bazooka wrote:Did Charles Manson kill more or less people than the God of the Old Testament?
This made me wonder who killed more people Robert E Lee or Charles Manson. Perhaps a better comparison, US Grant, sometimes known as a butcher, or Charles Manson.
Bazooka wrote:Did Charles Manson kill more or less people than the God of the Old Testament?
This made me wonder who killed more people Robert E Lee or Charles Manson. Perhaps a better comparison, US Grant, sometimes known as a butcher, or Charles Manson.
After all Robert E Lee was a gentleman.
I think General Curtis E. LeMay has them all beat...excepting the god of the old testament.
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. --Yahoo Bot
I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess. --Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
