Can Mormons Believe in Evolution? (Click here for the answer

[_the road to hana]

Harmony, my apologies - I'm not familiar with you or your posts, and because of some of your comments, I mistook you for someone who is a believing Mormon.

I was referring to my music (what there is of it).

I'm not really following this thread, but it always makes me a little sad when someone comes on here and starts tangling with harmony--of all people.

Tal and harmony should be friends, and on the same side. Now if Tal came on and started tangling with Charity, I might understand it (even though I also think Charity is a nice person). Harmony might frustrate people who identify as rabidly active LDS, because she takes a more moderate path, but she shouldn't be rankling exmos.

She's a good 'un.

[_harmony]

Second point: You seem to be quite proud that I am "unable to impact" your opinions. But there was never any hope of that, Harmony. After all, if LDS scriptures, the LDS Bible Dictionary, LDS First Presidency statements on doctrine, and sitting LDS church presidents are ALSO "unable to impact" your opinions, what hope would anyone else have? You just keep inadvertently making my point for me...

Actually, that's not what I meant, but it doesn't surprise me that you personalized it, rather than see what I meant from a stewardship standpoint. (I meant, you aren't my bishop, so you have no stewardship, and there is certainly no pride attached to a very factual statement.)

If you're saying Joseph lost the prophetic mantle the instant he walked outside his marriage vows to Emma, then I agree with you

.

---What would ever make you think he had a "prophetic mantle" to lose in the first place?[/quote]

Good question. I will ponder that.

Of course God will allow the prophet to lead the church astray.

---If the words "lead" "church" and "astray", and the most elementary rules of logic, have any meaning whatsoever, then...yup.

Actually, it has more to do with what one thinks God will do more than anything.

---What you believe you've already made clear. The point is just that it is in conflict with LDS doctrine. Not that I particularly care what you choose in the end to believe; what is germane is just that it IS in conflict...but that that doesn't bother you. And like I said - why should it, really? It's not like "Mormon leaders reveal the truth" or something. They no more do that than anyone else on the planet. So why believe them, or "the scriptures"?

Actually, only some of my views are in conflict with LDS doctrine, and they aren't important enough to warrant their own question on the TRI, which is why I still possess a temple recommend and remain in good standing. I'm still not sure why this is of such importance.

About the rest of your post - like I said, I think if Mormonism is working for you right now, and you're not bothered by discrepancies between your own views and LDS doctrine, then you should probably stick with it.

I'm bothered by very little, and virtually everything I'm bothered about has to do with women and power, but other than that.... I'm just hoping that some day the prophet is humble enough to actually hear what God's got to say, rather ignore it because it's not the tradition.

[_Gazelam]

BC,

Can you please comment on what I said aboout blood and the Fall? Can your image of things still operate with the understanding that the fall brought blood into the world?

Gaz

[_Gazelam]

hana,

I'm not really following this thread, but it always makes me a little sad when someone comes on here and starts tangling with harmony--of all people.

Your missing the point. Harmony fulfills the quest this thread started out to find. Shes a symptom of the disease that Tal is seeking to expose.

Namely, members arent listenign to the Prophets like they are supposed to. They walk down strange paths and believe silly things that disharmonize the gospel.

The gospel is relaly quite simple and interwoven and self supporting if you take away the self indulgent postulating some of the members contort themselves into. (BC)

[_harmony]

Namely, members aren't listenign to the Prophets like they are supposed to.

When they say something worth hearing, I'm all ears. Until then, it's just another opportunity to nap.

[_Gazelam]

Namely, members aren't listenign to the Prophets like they are supposed to.

When they say something worth hearing, I'm all ears. Until then, it's just another opportunity to nap.

I wasn't refering to the living ones alone dear.

[_bcspace]

BC,

Can you please comment on what I said aboout blood and the Fall? Can your image of things still operate with the understanding that the fall brought blood into the world?

Gaz

This one......

Ok, so we have established that the Fall brought death into the world... now lets look at why:

What is the state of being in the presence of God? 1 Cor. 15:50 states that "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Therefore nothing in heaven has blood in it.

When Christ appeared and the disciples handled him, he stated" Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39) No blood there, just flesh and bone.

What Adam brought into the world with the Fall was blood. "The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev. 17:11) The mortal body lives on only so long as the blood is present. Spill the blood and mortality ceases. Hence, flesh and blood means mortality. Mortality cannot inherit a celestial world, for that is the dwelling place of immortal incorruptable beings.

No blood, no corruption, no evolution.

....?

I don't believe it necessarily follows in the case of the garden. However, consider: What about the Three Nephites and John? These are examples of flesh and blood beings who are all of a sudden transformed into that which does not die. Why could not the same type of thing happen when Adam is placed in the garde?

In an even stricter sense, if God can resurrect living bodies bodies that contain no blood, why can He not transform Adam into a similar state while living? Afterall, He transformed Adam (according to you) into a being with no blood to one with blood. My theory simply has the reverse process occuring.

[_harmony]

Namely, members aren't listenign to the Prophets like they are supposed to.

When they say something worth hearing, I'm all ears. Until then, it's just another opportunity to nap.

I wasn't refering to the living ones alone dear.

They are the only ones we're supposed to listen to. I wonder if they'll say anything worth hearing next weekend?