Something Troubling in Sunday School

[_consiglieri]

For me, I can't see how it would differ. I wouldn't be comfortable either way, personally.

I, also, am not comfortable either way, Stem.

But if I am honest, I will admit I would be more uncomfortable confessing a sexual sin to a woman than to a man.

This makes me think of the time when I and my second wife were brought before a bishop's court because we had sex the night before we got married; we each had been married before; not an excuse but important for context, I think.

There were four guys in the room (the bishopric and me) and only one woman.

We were all talking about the same thing, but I have to think my wife viewed it a bit differently than I.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

I've always felt comforted by blessing style rituals. I have not experienced sexual abuse. I still think they are a comforting thing....just see no sense in leaving out just over half the population.

I am glad you feel comforted by the rituals, JM, and didn't mean to suggest you should feel otherwise.

I just felt my friend (whom I actually met the first time at the MTC--she was going to Italy and I to Japan--and who told me about this over ten years later after she had left the Church) should have her voice heard on the subject.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_consiglieri]

Let me put it this way: When my second daughter put in her missionary papers the mission president who interviewed her told her that it is perfectly okay for her to cancel her papers if she is getting married. Marriage was more important. The LDS church does not encourage young women to go on missions. They have a different responsibility to perform.

Precisely.

And the young women's responsiblity is in the home, where they are expected to be wives and mothers.

Can you really not see the sexism inherent in what you are saying?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_jon]

I was always taught that the most important mission I could serve was to have babies and raise them in the church.

You missed the boat a little on this one: A woman's important mission is to care and nurture the choice spirit given to her by heavenly father. And since we are all spirit children of god, women have a very important mission to fulfill. They are being a mother to one of god's choice spirits. Men are also partners in this. But their role is different from the mother.

What is the special mission of those women who are unable to bare children?

[_consiglieri]

I was always taught that the most important mission I could serve was to have babies and raise them in the church.

You missed the boat a little on this one: A woman's important mission is to care and nurture the choice spirit given to her by heavenly father. And since we are all spirit children of god, women have a very important mission to fulfill. They are being a mother to one of god's choice spirits. Men are also partners in this. But their role is different from the mother.

How is this missing the boat at all?

You both just said the same thing as far as I can tell.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_stemelbow]

I, also, am not comfortable either way, Stem.

But if I am honest, I will admit I would be more uncomfortable confessing a sexual sin to a woman than to a man.

This makes me think of the time when I and my second wife were brought before a bishop's court because we had sex the night before we got married; we each had been married before; not an excuse but important for context, I think.

There were four guys in the room (the bishopric and me) and only one woman.

We were all talking about the same thing, but I have to think my wife viewed it a bit differently than I.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Perhaps never having been in such a situation I can't really appreciate the description. Whoever it is, i don't see any comfort---man or woman. I can't imagine why I would feel more comfortable or less comfortable based on gender. Perhaps personality, and attitude would play a part in how much comfort or discomfort i would feel.

Likewise, I'm not sure, if I were your wife, I'd feel any differently, comfort-wise, if they were four men or four women. But I ain't no woman so I can't say for sure. Maybe if I were a woman who was sexually abused and felt suspicious of men in general I'd feel awfully uncomfortable with men.

[_consiglieri]

The question is: can a woman handle it. Maybe not.

*sound of palm slapping forehead*

[_consiglieri]

If women had equal rights, would they also be willing to accept equal responsibility? I think not.

*double palm slap*

[_just me]

What is so strange is how feminized the gospel is, yet how patriarchal it is. I really don't get it! Maybe it is a paradox.

You said a total mouthful in that "wall of text," JM, but this is what resonated with me.

The only attributes of God that are extolled seem to be the "feminine." (I know even that sounds sexist, but I hope you will understand what I mean.)

God is "love," "charity," "mercy," "service," and so forth.

God is basically the Relief Society Motto.

I think we intentionally deny God "masculine" attributes because they are much easier to find fault with. And we are loathe to attribute anything remotely "faulty" to God.

And yet, we are left with the fact that God the Father is almost uniformly described as "The Divine Feminine" in a male-dominated Church; a male-driven Church that has pretty much driven Heavenly Mother into the wilderness, not unlike what the serpent does to the woman in Revelation.

So the patriarchy has gotten rid of Heavenly Mother; describes Heavenly Father in "feminine" terms; denies women the priesthood while at the same time preaching that women are morally and spiritually superior to men; and the women have been "carefully taught" to publicly proclaim their gratitude to the patriarchy for being discriminated against.

What is wrong with this picture?

And is it possible it could be remedied in large part by reenthroning Heavenly Mother in the Mormon Deity right alongside, and not subservient to, Heavenly Father?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

*blush*

Yeah, it is totally bizzare! And I am on the same page as you with "masculine/feminine" attributes. It's just easier to say it that way for the sake of conversation. It is obvious that we all share these attributes in varying degrees.

I would hope that bringing back the Goddess would have an equalizing effect. Yet, I guess I just don't see how the LDS church could do it. Honestly, it would be great if the church could grow up and stop worshipping an anthropomorphic god. Take it to the next level.

[_just me]

The question is: can a woman handle it. Maybe not.

*sound of palm slapping forehead*

Let's play a game!

The question is: can a man handle it. Maybe not.