Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologetics

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_Yoda

Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Yoda »

Darth J wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote: I'd sure like to be a fly on that cyber wall. :wink:


No you wouldn't. Not if it is like her previous private bitch and moan club that I was in for a brief time. Imagine L. Ron Hubbard's vision of Mean Girls.

Don't worry. You certainly don't have to worry about being invited, either.
_schreech
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _schreech »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thanks. This makes sense. I guess this is why there is literally no discussion about any of this over on MAD -- they're all over at Liz's. I'd sure like to be a fly on that cyber wall. :wink:


You are far too rational and level headed to fit in over at that board...Also, I would recommend against giving someone with Liz's track record access to ANY private data about yourself...

They don't discuss it on MAD because its a public board and this is a HUGE embarrassment to the individuals involved. Why would they want to make their mindless minions aware of their ethical blunders? Some people over at the MAD board look to these apologists for direction and purpose...
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_Yoda

Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Yoda »

RockSlider wrote:
3sheets2thewind wrote:Internet rule 13:

Print screen (often abbreviated Prt Scr, Print Scrn, Prt Scn, or Prnt Scrn.

Did Dan defend his actions on the basis that it was a moral issue for him?


Yes he did. Well, there was nothing for him to defend, as his morals dictated that nothing wrong was done, so there is nothing to defend. I've deleted my user and can not share any screen shots.

Considering that it is a private board, if our friendship means anything to you at all, I would hope that you would not have posted screen shots here even if you had access.
_Darth J
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Darth J »

It makes me very sad that I am not fetch enough for Liz's elite Mormontologist gossip session/pity party.
_RockSlider
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _RockSlider »

liz3564 wrote: is a private board, if our friendship means anything to you at all, I would hope that you would not have posted screen shots here even if you had access.


Liz, I've noted at least twice in this thread that I have no screen shots, nor direct quotes to share here from your board. I have none that I've taken with me for possible future use either.
_RockSlider
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _RockSlider »

schreech wrote:You are far too rational and level headed to fit in over at that board...Also, I would recommend against giving someone with Liz's track record access to ANY private data about yourself...


for what it's worth, I would trust Liz with my private data anytime. Liz is good people and I have no beaf with her. I do not believe she violated any trust before, and think it is unfair for a few here to be throwing this back in her face.

As for her board, Liz is by nature a peace maker, her desire is to establish internet "friends" and to promote Mormon discussion that is respectful to the various views. This was and is a noble goal, but as seems inevitable, the lion and the lamb are just not going to be lying together, in peace anytime soon. I believe this truely hurts her, and she is always diligent in trying to maintain the peace.

Liz gets angry with me with I use the term MDDB2, but it is what it is. It was not long ago that there was a dicussion of the direction of Geeks, and that based on those invited it was likely to continue to lean pro-mormon. Any potential balance was initially lost when Parohan was invited. Several critics simply were not willing to deal with him and left. This followed by the likes of Dan and Julian and the regular posters (besides two, now one) not seeing these apologist as being able to do any wrong.

Add to this now pro-apologist community the common use of a dedicated forum to follow and critique MDB and you basically have a private MDDB. Sorry Liz that's just how it is and why I needed to leave (or you would have eventually been faced with banning me, the way things were headed). We all knew, from the previously mentioned conversation that your board was going to end up pro-mormon. I do not leave in anger and I do respect what you tried to do. It's just not a comfortable place for me anymore, we all know I just don't fit. So Liz, best of wishes to you and yours. I mean that.
_3sheets2thewind
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _3sheets2thewind »

schreech wrote:
Rollo Tomasi wrote:Thanks. This makes sense. I guess this is why there is literally no discussion about any of this over on MAD -- they're all over at Liz's. I'd sure like to be a fly on that cyber wall. :wink:


You are far too rational and level headed to fit in over at that board...Also, I would recommend against giving someone with Liz's track record access to ANY private data about yourself...

They don't discuss it on MAD because its a public board and this is a HUGE embarrassment to the individuals involved. Why would they want to make their mindless minions aware of their ethical blunders? Some people over at the MAD board look to these apologists for direction and purpose...



This incident is known.because Dan made it public knowledge.

It is not discussed on MDDB, because no one over there wants to be banned and labeled an apostate for questioning Dans ethics and/or behavior.

Though, if made into a discussion on MDDB, no one would speak against Dan and juliann Reynolds a.a.s.k.a Nemisis wouldn't allow such a discussion.

Though, Dan must not be too worried and neither is mddb, as Dans admission is still on the board...I figured it would have been deleted by now, despite the fact a screen shot is posted online.
_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

3sheets2thewind wrote:Though, Dan must not be too worried and neither is mddb, as Dans admission is still on the board...I figured it would have been deleted by now, despite the fact a screen shot is posted online.

I think removing the admission from MAD would look even worse -- the 'genie is out of the bottle,' as it were. I think Dan is worried about it because he's been conspicuously silent (except for the 3rd-person "statement" he released through Liz) -- usually when he's charged with wrongdoing, particularly on this bb, he'll post a pretty quick response on MAD or his personal blog. But he hasn't said anything about this on MAD, and most of the stuff he's posted on his blog over the past couple of days are silly cartoons.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Alter Idem
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Alter Idem »

o, I have a question for Alter Idem, stemelbow, Liz, and anyone else who is defending Dan on this matter:

There is a self-styled LDS apologist who used to run a blog and post on blogs under the handle "spamLDS." His real name was Greg West. He was always unbelievably rude to anyone who disagreed with his hyper-conservative brand of Mormonism, quickly branding them anti-Mormon bigots. Most disturbingly, he displayed stalking behavior towards a young, female evangelical blogger, posting her real name on his blog over protests from her and criticizing the accreditation of a degree that she had never publicly mentioned having. At one point he attempted to curse this young woman using his priesthood power.

Mr. West also claimed to be a branch president.

Now, I found it extremely troubling that the church would ever appoint such a man to serve as a leader of others. I thought maybe he was lying about this.

Do you think it would be appropriate for me to approach my husband's bishop and ask him to look up Mr. West and tell me whether or not he really is a branch president? Do you think the bishop would grant my request? Why or why not?

Thanks in advance.


Of course you can ask. And very likely your Bishop would look it up to see if he was listed--and I assume they list Branch Presidents.
Every man is a moon and has a [dark] side which he turns toward nobody; you have to slip around behind if you want to see it. ---Mark Twain
_Kishkumen
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Re: Dan Peterson breaks Church Rules in pursuit of Mopologet

Post by _Kishkumen »

RockSlider wrote:We all knew, from the previously mentioned conversation that your board was going to end up pro-mormon.


Well, I think the truth of the matter is probably a little uglier than that, unfortunately. I would not blame Liz entirely, because I think there were a number of factors that contributed to this unfortunate outcome. Indeed, Liz's own good nature and best intentions are among them. To call the elements of the board who brought this all to a head pro-Mormon is like calling Islamic fundamentalists "pro-Islam." And, no, that is probably not exactly it either. What you have on that board now is the pro-classic FARMS crew.

In the final analysis it is not pro-Mormon at all; it is about enabling the worst tendencies of Mormon apologetics, for which Mormonism only provides the pretext.

One of the go-to tools of this group is to create division. Daniel Peterson is a master of this, and he has been doing it for decades. Where others seek to unite, Daniel seeks to divide. Sure, it may sound implausible given his involvement with efforts to create mutual understanding among religionists, but this has to be weighed against the relentless efforts to create sharp divisions regarding attitudes toward himself above all.

For a while I was a defender of Daniel Peterson, and I was a defender of Daniel Peterson because I came to realize the good part of some of the scholarship happening in connection with apologetics. And there is good stuff. Daniel has contributed to this. The bad stuff, however, is just plain bad. It is the sophomoric pranks, insults, Metcalfe is Butthead, threatening, contacting employers, lying about pointless things, anti-Semite accusations... the GARBAGE of classic-FARMS that fully deserved to be swept from the campus of BYU.

That is the stuff that I could not reconcile myself to. It has taken on a life of its own. It has sucked people into its vortex. It is not a person... not Daniel Peterson himself... but he plays a role in keeping it alive, fanning the flames, and feeding the beast. It is an illness. A storm that passes through the lives of others but carries no rain to bless the fields. It divides friends; it creates enemies; it makes good people doubt themselves; it makes bad people worse. Its weapons are accusation, false piety, deception, and ends-justifies-the-means behavior.

I will still defend good apologetics. Mormonism is, weighed in the balance, a good thing. It deserves the best possible defenses. And I hope the best defenses and the good lives of its virtuous people make it better, moving it ever closer to Zion

Classic-FARMS became something that was making it worse. It was a corrosive influence on the Church. Zion was ever further away as long as classic-FARMS pointed its mocking finger at the person struggling with his/her faith. As long as it responded to the work of interested non-LDS scholars as "anti-Mormon" if it was not panegyrical to the standard set by classic-FARMS.

That phenomenon has nested at GeekyNOMs. Liz welcomed it there with open arms. Liz has to bear some of the responsibility, but I and others are not blameless. And, I consider this a dark day. I wish Liz the very best in the future, but I think she has made a series of dreadful choices, frankly. May I be proven wrong, but that is what I think about it.

No ill will, Liz. I bear you no ill will. I wish you happiness and a long life. May I be proven wrong. But the thing living in your message board is evil. Its not a person. It does not have a person's name. Don't mistake my meaning there. It is a phenomenon. And it is bad news.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
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