Meeting with Bishop: Faith is a Choice

[_Hoops]

It is illogical to believe in a worldwide flood that wiped out the entire human race except for 8 people and any animals they managed to stuff into a wooden boat.

You haven't been listening.

It is illogical to believe that God is both merciful as he tells us he is, and at the same time believe that he tricked Abraham into believing that he needed to sacrificially murder his son.

It is illogical to treat this statement as anything other than it is. A juvenile, simplistic appeal to emotion.

It is illogical to believe that the Bible is the word of God and that the things in it literally happened.

Oh? How so?

It is illogical to believe in God when millions of his children suffer abuse at the hands of adults.

Oh? How so?

[_Drifting]

Hoops, before we go further.

Do you believe, as the Bible tells us, that there was literally a worldwide flood that covered the whole earth which wiped out the human race, the animal kingdom, the insect kingdom, and all non aquatics animals and plants, with the exception of the things and people crammed into the ark?

[_Hoops]

Hoops, before we go further.

Do you believe, as the Bible tells us, that there was literally a worldwide flood that covered the whole earth which wiped out the human race, the animal kingdom, the insect kingdom, and all non aquatics animals and plants, with the exception of the things and people crammed into the ark?

What does this have to do with this thread?

[_Drifting]

Hoops, before we go further.

Do you believe, as the Bible tells us, that there was literally a worldwide flood that covered the whole earth which wiped out the human race, the animal kingdom, the insect kingdom, and all non aquatics animals and plants, with the exception of the things and people crammed into the ark?

What does this have to do with this thread?

Come on hoops, you have a view on this faith based question.
Don't be shy.

[_Themis]

Balogna.

LOL you are the one who said we don't have any evidence for a reality outside ourselves and "it is illogical for one to appeal to their experience in order to claim there is no evidence for a god". If their is no evidence for a reality outside ourselves then one has to logically accept that their is no evidence for God regardless if they are appealing to expereince which is all that we have anyways. If you think there is evidence other then the obvious evidence myself and others have provided let us know. Until then I can only see inconsistency on your part.

You'll have to explain this. Or are you banking on the fact that most people will accept your statement at face value simply because you wrote it.

I'm sure others will decide for themselves. I explain your inconsistency above. I accept the spiritual experience as evidence, even if not very good or reliable for God. Evidence does not necessarily mean that something is correct, just as the evidence from our expereinces for a reality outside ourselves does not necessarily mean that there is a reality outside ourselves that we are perceiving to some degree.

Oh? I don't think so. God doesn't represent anything. God is the reality. Just as God is justice and mercy.

Could you more specific? You seem to be saying God doesn't represent anything and then bring up 3 things that God represents. I am more interested in how you think God is the reality.

[_Hoops]

This:

LOL you are the one who said we don't have any evidence for a reality outside ourselves

Is not the same as this:

and "it is illogical for one to appeal to their experience in order to claim there is no evidence for a god".

If their is no evidence for a reality outside ourselves then one has to logically accept that their is no evidence for God regardless

That's not what I wrote and your statement does not logically follow either way.

if they are appealing to expereince which is all that we have anyways.

Says who?

If you think there is evidence other then the obvious evidence myself and others have provided

laughably inane. You haven't done so but the trumpet is in tune.

let us know. Until then I can only see inconsistency on your part.

Of course.

I'm sure others will decide for themselves. I explain your inconsistency above.

If you say so.

I accept the spiritual experience as evidence, even if not very good or reliable for God. Evidence does not necessarily mean that something is correct, just as the evidence from our expereinces for a reality outside ourselves does not necessarily mean that there is a reality outside ourselves that we are perceiving to some degree.

Correct. And to any degree.

Could you more specific? You seem to be saying God doesn't represent anything and then bring up 3 things that God represents. I am more interested in how you think God is the reality.

The fact that you can't even get this simple quote right reveals more about your explication of my other statements.

I did not write that God represents mercy, justice, and reality. I wrote that God IS these things. Not that He has these things, that they are characteristics of His, but He IS these things. There is a difference. I don't want to vary from the point of my discussion, but there is a difference.

And, yes, I am saying that God does not represent anything.

These things exist in creation because God is these things. They were not created, they've always existed as who He is.

Sure: Selflessness. Love. Charity. Community. Life.

[_honorentheos]

Or are you banking on the fact that most people will accept your statement at face value simply because you wrote it.

I think he's banking on you not providing a better alternative.

I'd say that's pretty safe money.

[_Hoops]

I think he's banking on you not providing a better alternative.

I'd say that's pretty safe money.

Your statement implies that your method has efficacy at the outset. Which I've shown it does not.

[_Themis]

This:

LOL you are the one who said we don't have any evidence for a reality outside ourselves

Is not the same as this:

and "it is illogical for one to appeal to their experience in order to claim there is no evidence for a god".

If ones expereince does not include God then it is logical to say they have no evidence for God. It may not make sense to say no evidence exists for God, but then if you want to say their is, then you have to show it. You can't have any based on your own illogical argument that ones experience is not evidence for an external reality. Therefore you can't not have any evidence for God. If you have an alternate way to access reality outside your self then by all means show us.

Says who?

Can you show that we have something else, and I am not talking about the interpretations/meanings we attach to them. If you want to question things then you will have to back them up.

laughably inane. You haven't done so but the trumpet is in tune.

LOL We will have to disagree on this and a number of other ones. I think honorentheos is right that you do not seem to understand what evidence is.

Correct. And to any degree.

This is why it is plain to people here that you are not consistent. If you believe experience is not evidence of an external reality then you cannot also claim evidence for God or anything outside yourself.

The fact that you can't even get this simple quote right reveals more about your explication of my other statements.

Unfortunately I think you do not understand well the words you use to communicate, not that I am perfect with it either. If God is justice and mercy then God would also represent them, not that they have to be exclusive to God since they really are behaviors.

I did not write that God represents mercy, justice, and reality. I wrote that God IS these things. Not that He has these things, that they are characteristics of His, but He IS these things. There is a difference. I don't want to vary from the point of my discussion, but there is a difference.

Justice and mercy are behaviors. Could you clearly explain how God can be a behavior. by the way I looked up represent and it fits how I am using it. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/represent

These things exist in creation because God is these things. They were not created, they've always existed as who He is.

Sure: Selflessness. Love. Charity. Community. Life.

More words that mean behaviors except for community and life. Maybe you could define God a little better, and especially how God is reality. Do you consider yourself to have evidence for God, and how do you reconcile this with your argument that experience is not evidence for an external reality?

[_Drifting]

Hoops, before we go further.

Do you believe, as the Bible tells us, that there was literally a worldwide flood that covered the whole earth which wiped out the human race, the animal kingdom, the insect kingdom, and all non aquatics animals and plants, with the exception of the things and people crammed into the ark?

What does this have to do with this thread?

Bumpety Bump

Hoops have you made a choice to have faith in the flood or have you reached a logical conclusion about it?