John Dehlin: A Spy Story

[_cwald]

Mayan Elephant.... I think your last post is a fair and well written summary of the issue and disagreements on this thread and other threads.

[Guest]

I have talked to John about the "emotional devastation" he has gone through. I believe him. I have also witnesses first hand the pain and emotional trama the church is inflicting on the heretical members. It's real. And whether one agrees with JD's tactics or whatever, the issue of the church corporation bullying it's members and "spying" is a serious problem they are going to have to address and face up to eventually.

Just my opinion.

Sincerely, a "Dehlinite"

I think it is unfortunate that heretical essentially means disloyal/disobedient to leaders. Sure, one can point to ways in which these so-called "heretics" diverge from normative LDS beliefs, but since no one can define what the doctrine of the LDS Church is in a satisfactory way, the idea of doctrinal heresy in Mormonism borders on absurd.

And, cwald, I notice you have humorously called yourself a Dehlinite in your signature. This raises another interesting issue, which is the model of charismatic leadership in the LDS community and the boundaries erected around it. It seems that anyone who sticks his or her neck out to opine or take action on religious matters is going to face some kind of formal or informal push back from Mormons and ex-Mormons, unless they kowtow to LDS leaders.

Public figures within the faith need to navigate their public Mormon identity very carefully, particularly if their activities touch directly on the faith. Anyone who presumes to step out of the narrow confines of approved speech risks the wrath of present and former members of the faith. Ex-Mormons can dismiss Mormons who speak in line with the Brethren as TBMs, but they will also castigate those who speak out of line with the Brethren as aspiring cultists.

In my own case, I have routinely felt a dislike for people stepping out to form para-ecclesiastical communities. I was not really keen on Mormon Stories becoming a "community." I did not care for the way Kate Kelly seemed to attract a following with its own orthodoxy and techniques of boundary maintenance.

But, I have to wonder, are these perhaps two sides of the same coin? The saintly fiction of Joseph Smith is not to be touched either way. It is not to be touched because it is too holy, or because it is the sham that disappointed people. But, far be it from anyone to stick their neck out. Or, could it be that anyone who sticks her or his neck out is inevitably going to fall into the distinctly LDS kind of charismatic leadership? If you like that model, you will accuse this aspiring person of being an apostate. If you don't like it, the person is the reflection of the evil Joseph Smith.

In any case, I am not "any manner of -ite." I am fascinated by these folk leaders, but I have not followed any of them. I am interested in Snuffer, Waterman, Kelly, Dehlin, the Toscanos, Maxine Hanks, Don Bradley, DCP, etc., etc. I wouldn't say that I have signed on to any person's particular cause, to the extent one of these folks could be said to have one, but I do enjoy talking about them and seeing what their experiences can tell us about being a Mormon or ex-Mormon at this time.

Yes. It is absurd. I like to tell people I'm still a Mormon and a damn good one. ...it's just that the LDS church don't want me despite that fact.

I was shocked when i got called in for church discipline to be honest. I literally got ran out of the church for being an "Dehlinite." That is what the accusation was. I belonged to "Dehlin apostate group" based in Cached Valley and they mined quotes from stayLDS and Facebook as evidence. In was like WTF are you guys talking about?

The church in cache valley was running scared of Dehlin five years ago. And i was unfortunate to have family who were church leaders in Cache Vallwy which ended up causing me getting caught up in it all.

I guess if that makes me a Dehlinite so be it. Ironic part of it is i have not contributed a penny to MS, and the first and only time i have ever met the guy was last May at my friend's house who lives a couple blocks down the road from John.

Oh well.

I think Dehlin is a very charismatic guy and he does have a following of sorts. ME is probably right that there are Dehlinite, I'm just not sure why he thinks I'm one of them. Or you and Lemmie and Mak etc for that matter?

[_Mayan Elephant]

I guess if ME is going to put more labels on everyone I can label ME an emotional anti-Dehlinite.

that is a new category. damn. i need a spreadsheet for this.

[_cwald]

I guess if ME is going to put more labels on everyone I can label ME an emotional anti-Dehlinite.

that is a new category. damn. i need a spreadsheet for this.

You goddamn damned anti Dehlinite you. ...

[_Equality]

I think it was unfair for ME to call cwald an anti-Dehlinite. At most, cwald would be a New Order Dehlinite ("NOD" for short). He's certainly not a Chapel Dehlinite. But how long before someone starts a message board dubbed Recovery from Dehlinism?

[_Runtu]

For some reason, I am unable to muster any craps to give about Dehlin.

[_Mayan Elephant]

I think it was unfair for ME to call cwald an anti-Dehlinite. At most, cwald would be a New Order Dehlinite ("NOD" for short). He's certainly not a Chapel Dehlinite. But how long before someone starts a message board dubbed Recovery from Dehlinism?

Cwald is a dehlinite of record. I am not going to remove this membership based on publicly available comments mined from this FUBAR. That would be rude.

Cwald. When we get those beers, you better be drinking chimay from the bottle. We got a lot of catching up to do.

[_suniluni2]

But how long before someone starts a message board dubbed Recovery from Dehlinism?

I'm sure ME has the answer to that. He can call it "the breakfast club".

[_Mayan Elephant]

But how long before someone starts a message board dubbed Recovery from Dehlinism?

I'm sure ME has the answer to that. He can call it "the breakfast club".

I am pretty pretty pretty sure that this was, by far, the funniest post i have read in a long time.

Brilliant and touché.

[_Kishkumen]

For some reason, I am unable to muster any craps to give about Dehlin.

And, this thread wasn't about me asking you to do so.