This is why critics are so relentless...

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_jskains
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _jskains »

Runtu wrote:
jskains wrote:I went to the site and there is a bit of deception.

First Fox claimed the Church didn't want to answer the questions. Then notice there is a lot of repeats to the questions.

How much of that is the Church and how much is Fox playing games? Fox isn't exactly a beacon of truth.

JMS


Neither is the church, for that matter. ;)

They answered about the way I expected them to answer. Not quite forthright, but just vague enough to gloss over the problematic.


Your not getting it... I am not sure those are the full responses or even the right responses at all. There is something fishy.

JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_jskains
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Post by _jskains »

How about the alternative? Mitt Romney talked about how we don't believe that Christ will return to Missouri... Some people were attacking Romney for believing that.

When I listened to the Church PR people respond in a phone call, they corrected him and said that yes, the LDS Church believes that.

So I am sorry, but I have heard the official LDS folk often confirm our "odd" doctrine.

JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_skippy the dead
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Post by _skippy the dead »

My initial thoughts: the answers are quite vague and often slide by the actual question. For instance, women don't require a special pass or codewords to get into heaven? Then what the hell was the point of all that stuff in the temple? And nice dodge on Kolob. And what was that answer about "gods and goddesses" - shouldn't the response have been "I don't know that we teach that"?
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_Runtu
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _Runtu »

jskains wrote:Your not getting it... I am not sure those are the full responses or even the right responses at all. There is something fishy.

JMS


Well, that's an entirely different question. You believe that Fox is misstating or distorting the church's responses? Judging by what I saw, the answers as given seem just about what we should expect the church's PA department to provide.
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_jskains
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _jskains »

Runtu wrote:
jskains wrote:Your not getting it... I am not sure those are the full responses or even the right responses at all. There is something fishy.

JMS


Well, that's an entirely different question. You believe that Fox is misstating or distorting the church's responses? Judging by what I saw, the answers as given seem just about what we should expect the church's PA department to provide.


Well, I guess with more research I found that the PR department can be annoying...

http://www.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/comm ... -and-satan

JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_Jason Bourne
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Who Knows wrote:
jskains wrote:Critics are relentless because the Church is responding to the fact that critics are relentless?


uh, no. critics are relentless because the church refuses to give the straight-up truth. Instead, they distort and misrepresent.

Someone's gotta give the straight dope.


I think most the questions were answered fairly accept a couple seemed to dodge the issues. The one about becoming Gods could have been better. The Kolob thing is a no win not matter how is is answered.
_Runtu
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _Runtu »

jskains wrote:
Well, I guess with more research I found that the PR department can be annoying...

http://www.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/comm ... -and-satan

JMS


No, the PA department is just very careful about what it says.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_skippy the dead
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _skippy the dead »

Runtu wrote:
jskains wrote:Your not getting it... I am not sure those are the full responses or even the right responses at all. There is something fishy.

JMS


Well, that's an entirely different question. You believe that Fox is misstating or distorting the church's responses? Judging by what I saw, the answers as given seem just about what we should expect the church's PA department to provide.


Agreed.

I also got the sense that there may have been additional questions that the PR department did not think were worthy of response (i.e., from "anti-Mormon blogs and websites"). I wonder what those were? Perhaps we could get FoxNEWS to list the unanswered questions.
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_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

Wow....

Many of these questions are typically found on anti-Mormon blogs or Web sites which aim to misrepresent or distort Mormon doctrines," the Church said in a statement. "Several of these questions do not represent ... any serious attempt to depict the core values and beliefs of its members."


Unfortunately, the church won’t discuss the issues so the only place where one can find much information about the LDS church is on sites where no one is going to spin, contort, deceive, and deny the teachings of the church.

A: 'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines.


Please… "Kolob," is scriptural, doctrine, clear, and taught. It is the sphere nearest to God’s residence. The church response is completely deceptive.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that God and Mary had physical sex to conceive Jesus?
A: The Church does not claim to know how Jesus was conceived but believes the Bible and Book of Mormon references to Jesus being born of the Virgin Mary.


The church teaches Jesus was born from the sperm of God and the egg of Mary… these two were married/sealed and are the physical birth parents of Jesus.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?
A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being 'joint heirs with Christ' reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.


The correct and honest answer is absolutely, yes. No question about this.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women can only gain access to heaven with a special pass or codewords?
A: No.


Well, this is a flat out lie. Or what in the heck is the temple all about? Or does the church deceive because the question does not contain the correct wording… tokens and handshakes, key words, new names, etc., rather than a special pass or codewords?

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe in the existence of another physical planet or planets, where Mormons will "rule" after their death and ascension?
A: No.


Deception… of course the church doesn’t believe members will rule planets… try their own universe.

Q: Can someone who may never marry in life have eternal marriage?
A: God will not withhold blessings from any of his children who may not have the opportunity to marry in this life.


The honest answer…. Only if a believing member vicariously baptizes them after they die, goes through the various rituals and ceremonies in the temple for them after they are dead, and is vicariously married/sealed to someone by believers on the earth.

This denial, spin, deception is so old... (sigh)

What strikes me more than anything is that the church feels a need to deny doctrine. What does that say?

~dancer~
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_BishopRic
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Post by _BishopRic »

truth dancer wrote:Wow....

...This denial, spin, deception is so old... (sigh)

What strikes me more than anything is that the church feels a need to deny doctrine. What does that say?

~dancer~


Yes, and I'm beginning to understand why so many "apologists" are resorting to personal attacks and sarcasm. They have to defend somehow, and with these types of answers, they can't stick to the issues!
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