A Public Apology

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:01 am

Hi Mledbetter... :-)

I'm sorry, you are correct. You'll have to excuse me, I'm ignorant, so I don't explain myself well.

No need for apology... on a discussion board we all have to clarify at times! :-)

I guess I was referring to not only God's existance, but his nature as well. When you say He doesn't exist, that's taking a huge leap regarding both.

I for one do not think it is possible, as a very young species here on one little planet only half way through the life of our universe, to comprehend what is the reality of the universe, let alone its intricate workings. :-) So, my experience suggests whatever it is of which we are a part is about a billion, trillion, gazillion times (smile), beyond what we could possibly comprehend with our very limited few abilities.

Folks have been claiming all sorts of truth for millennia... seems lots of folks think they know all sorts of things! ;-)

When you say you know he exists, but not much more, that's having faith based on some pretty compelling evidence. In many cases, that evidence if extremely personal, I suppose.

At minimum it suggests God is a male, and I'm assuming you mean human type?

I'm just pleading for you guys not to be so rash. I've seen a lot of evidence and can show you how to recreate my tests and perhaps you will see for yourselves.

My observation is that no one (at least no one who comes to mind), on this board is "rash." In fact I would say the average former believer has spent years wondering, questions, pondering, praying, exploring, working though disbelief.

Having said this, I would be most interested in your tests! :-)

~dancer~

Post by **_The Nehor** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:08 am

truth dancer wrote:My observation is that no one (at least no one who comes to mind), on this board is "rash."

(Sound of someone clearing their throat)

Post by **_mledbetter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:10 am

beastie wrote:Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.

Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

Post by **_beastie** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:13 am

Uh, no thanks. I'm not willing to completely screw up my life for the test. If that's the only way I can "know" God exists, then I'll pass.

You do realize that the conditions for your test are also perfect for creating someone who really, really, really wants to believe in a god who can rescue him/her?

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:15 am

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by then you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

OK... so if one wants to know if God exists, one must do something really horrible so her/his life is totally screwed, then feel really sorry and God will manifest "Himself" to you?

Nice God you got there.

:-(

Rather go with no God than this sort of craziness! (smile)

~dancer~

Post by **_mledbetter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:25 am

beastie wrote:Uh, no thanks. I'm not willing to completely screw up my life for the test. If that's the only way I can "know" God exists, then I'll pass.

I didn't say it was the only way. I said it was the way I had my first really powerful experience.

beastie wrote:You do realize that the conditions for your test are also perfect for creating someone who really, really, really wants to believe in a god who can rescue him/her?

Can you prove this?

You are assuming I wanted to be rescued. I only said I screwed up, not that I wanted to be rescued. I wanted to give up, if you must know.

I knew you would discount my test based on your assumption I wanted to believe. Actually, I was pissed and didn't believe and I certainly didn't want to believe anything at that point, but then thought for a minute that what if he is there, then the explosion of evidence to my senses. Say what you wish, I know what I experienced and I know it wasn't from my hoping.

by the way, I read later on the Confession of Tolstoy and was suprised to read he had a very similar experience. Mine was a little stronger than what he described, however.

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:26 am

mledbetter wrote:
beastie wrote:Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.

Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

So the folks dying of starvation and disease in 3rd world countries, AIDS patients, etc. aren't humbled enough?

Post by **_mledbetter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:30 am

truth dancer wrote:
God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by then you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

OK... so if one wants to know if God exists, one must do something really horrible so her/his life is totally screwed, then feel really sorry and God will manifest "Himself" to you?

Nice God you got there.

:-(

Rather go with no God than this sort of craziness! (smile)

~dancer~

Good point, I guess I'm saying this sort of tongue-in-cheek. I'm not recommending you go about it this way. Better if a man isn't compelled to be humble and all that. :-)

God didn't make my choices, I did. He was there to pull me out of the hole I dug.

I know what I felt and experienced and nothing could make me deny it. Other than that, I don't know much else, I'm afraid. Oh, and I asked Him about Christ and received that same confirmation, so there you go. Didn't get the same thing with other questions. Perhaps my humility was wearing off.

Post by **_mledbetter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:34 am

Jersey Girl wrote:
mledbetter wrote:
beastie wrote:Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.

Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

So the folks dying of starvation and disease in 3rd world countries, AIDS patients, etc. aren't humbled enough?

You're using Straw-man argument which I don't really see as relevent to what I'm saying. Many of the people in those countries have strong faith. Perhaps that explains the growth of Christianity and Islam in places such as Africa and South America. I don't know. I never claimed to know those answers. Sorry.

Post by **_mledbetter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:45 am

truth dancer wrote:I for one do not think it is possible, as a very young species here on one little planet only half way through the life of our universe, to comprehend what is the reality of the universe, let alone its intricate workings. :-) So, my experience suggests whatever it is of which we are a part is about a billion, trillion, gazillion times (smile), beyond what we could possibly comprehend with our very limited few abilities.

Folks have been claiming all sorts of truth for millennia... seems lots of folks think they know all sorts of things! ;-)

We can know some things about Him. It's up to God. We like to get mad when we pray to Him and in those prayers we are willing Him to speak to us and He doesn't. Like I said, true humility is harder to come by than you might think.

truth dancer wrote:At minimum it suggests God is a male, and I'm assuming you mean human type?

I hope He is. Have you ever had a woman boss?

truth dancer wrote:My observation is that no one (at least no one who comes to mind), on this board is "rash."

I'll have to agree with Nehor on this last one. :-)