harmony wrote:Where is Lehi on the map, in relation to SLC?
Utah County and Salt Lake County border each other. Lehi is the most northern city in Utah County, although the counties are seperated by a mountain range. If not for the mountains, Lehi would border Salt Lake.
Maybe 10 miles from South Salt Lake?
Somehow I thought it was in San Pete county (which would account for some oddness in the father). Well, his madness can't be blamed on the turkeys then.
Who on earth .... is there really anyone out there who would think that domestic violence does not impact children? Honestly?
There is a recent thread where a poster or two claimed that I was "catastrophizing" and being "Freudian" when I stated that the harm from domestic violence can last a lifetime for families and children.
This heartbreaking story is a good example of my assertion.
~dancer~
Last edited by Bing [Bot] on Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
When I heard this, I wondered if the mother had threatened to make sure the kids would have as little interaction as possible with the guy, and this theory was especially compounded by a protective order->downgraded to a restraining order and the mother's own attorney who went on record to think it highly unlikely the mother feared the father. I'm sorry to say that I know at least three men who went through divorces where the female did this very thing. They tactically initiate a restraining order (without cause) in order to establish the legal precedence to limit the father's interaction with the children in the divorce. I'm also sorry to say that these men, all three of them, were absolutely enraged because of this stunt.
While I do not know about this particular circumstance, having worked with hundreds of abusive men I can respond to this to some degree.
When this tactic you mention is used it is totally inappropriate, no question about it. And yes fathers are enraged. Absolutely!
But most men will not kill their wives.
There is a difference between men who are enraged and beat up or kill their wives and those who are enraged and do not.
The very fact that this man killed his wife tells me the PPO was appropriate. It is extraordinarily rare for a man to kill his wife without prior abuse.
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
harmony wrote:You really need to stick around here more.
Yes, I agree. I need to stick around more. This place suits me.
You'd be surprised at the stuff that comes out.
I'm not sure what this means. I can easily be surprised by a lot of things, but I don't think anyone on this board would say or imply or even harbor the thought that children are not impacted by domestic violence. And my question was (and still is) could there be anybody, anywhere who thinks that they are not? The thought is troubling.
I don't even think [insert explicitive], whom our discussion is about, thought the children would not be impacted or suffer in some manner. I'm thinking that maybe rage over rode any good sense he may have had concerning that. Tragic.
"If False, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions… " - Orson Pratt on The Book of Mormon
When I heard this, I wondered if the mother had threatened to make sure the kids would have as little interaction as possible with the guy, and this theory was especially compounded by a protective order->downgraded to a restraining order and the mother's own attorney who went on record to think it highly unlikely the mother feared the father. I'm sorry to say that I know at least three men who went through divorces where the female did this very thing. They tactically initiate a restraining order (without cause) in order to establish the legal precedence to limit the father's interaction with the children in the divorce. I'm also sorry to say that these men, all three of them, were absolutely enraged because of this stunt.
While I do not know about this particular circumstance, having worked with hundreds of abusive men I can respond to this to some degree.
When this tactic you mention is used it is totally inappropriate, no question about it. And yes fathers are enraged. Absolutely!
But most men will not kill their wives.
There is a difference between men who are enraged and beat up or kill their wives and those who are enraged and do not.
The very fact that this man killed his wife tells me the PPO was appropriate. It is extraordinarily rare for a man to kill his wife without prior abuse.
~dancer~
Absolutely! To even suggest that a protective order/restraining order should not have been sought is absurd in this case. The man was clearly disturbed and violent!
I'm not sure what this means. I can easily be surprised by a lot of things, but I don't think anyone on this board would say or imply or even harbor the thought that children are not impacted by domestic violence. And my question was (and still is) could there be anybody, anywhere who thinks that they are not? The thought is troubling.
My assertion was that there are children and families who experience the harmful effects of domestic violence and abuse for a lifetime.
And, yes there are those who not only disagree with my statment but called my assertion, "Freudian," and stated I was, "catastrophizing" by the suggestion.
I too was shocked and troubled by this.
I do not want to derail this thread but you are welcome to read the thread on abuse if you are interested in this topic.
:-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
Moniker wrote:Absolutely! To even suggest that a protective order/restraining order should not have been sought is absurd in this case. The man was clearly disturbed and violent!
The article said he had no prior history of violence. Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't violent and just never reported.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Moniker wrote:Absolutely! To even suggest that a protective order/restraining order should not have been sought is absurd in this case. The man was clearly disturbed and violent!
The article said he had no prior history of violence. Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't violent and just never reported.
So what? If the woman feared for her life or her safety then she had the right to seek it. There can be a THREAT of violence!
Is ANYONE doubting that she should not have reason to be fearful of this man?
What??? HUH?? I don't geddit. Please, someone explain to me that after a man shoots his wife why anyone would then try to make a case that maybe a restraining order was NOT appropriate in the situation?
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The article said he had no prior history of violence. Of course, that doesn't mean he wasn't violent and just never reported.
You are correct.
It means he has not been arrested for domestic violence or another violent crime.
If he had, he would most likely have been given probation while he attended a batterers program. (I'm not sure about the laws in Lehi but in many areas of the country anyway).
I can pretty much guarantee this was not the first incident of abuse.
Again, it is very rare for a rational, emotionally healthy, non-abusive man to kill his wife.
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj