More on the Financing of Mopologetics

[_harmony]

Money that, to my deep shame and dishonor, I raised from private benefactors and from domestic and foreign foundation grants. The whole situation is creepy to the max. Like Tales from the Crypt, or something.

Fun stuff! Welcome to my world. ;-)

[_Gadianton]

The notion of fundraising doesn't creep me out, it might annoy me, I hate being hit up for money. But, it's not creepy. I meant, this particular fundraiser, the way s/he has beein introduced makes me uneasy. It's kind of like, in a suspense or horror movie, otherwise normal things play into the uneasiness. I agree that something just isn't right with this picture, and a personage that we hitherto had no knowledge of I believe has something to do with it.

[_Gadianton]

This also reminds me of a book I read a long time ago. I believe it was called, The financing of Terror. The main point was that terrorist organizations end up defeating their purpose as they become corrupted by money.

[_Trevor]

Maybe our cyber-friends at the More Good Foundation were putting their heads together with some other parties concerning their common interests: http://www.scientologytoday.org/press/806041114122_scn-int.html

Consider this concern:

Internet technologists explained how the Internet is structured and used as the base for attack and as shelter to maintain anonymity, while millions of users are vulnerable at any given moment when logged on.

Here's another interesting tidbit:

While he [Brad Dacus] noted with considerable accuracy that religious institutions are under attack online, he also articulated the need for solidarity amongst all faiths to pull through and that conferences such as these are one of the mechanisms to do so.

If they [MGF] weren't there, they really missed out on a golden opportunity to share ideas with another reputable humanitarian organization [The Church of Scientology] about saving the world [i.e. their churches] from the scourge of internet anonymity. Wonder what the Scientologists are really worried about. Criticism perhaps?

[_antishock8]

Well, at least he adits to fundraising (which he never bothered to offer up before),

Was the issue ever raised before?

Of course I "admit" to occasional fundraising. Seeking to raise donated funds to support the continued functioning of a non-profit foundation is scarcely shameful.

Mr. Peterson. How much is your BYU salary?

LOL. The size of my salary is none of your business, just as the size of your allowance is none of mine.

Well, you're the one that keeps making how much you earn from Mopologetics everyone's business. You're acting like all you recieve to conduct it is a pittance, which is a lie. You're obviously employed by the Mormon church via BYU via FARMS via MI to do apologetics. It's not a hobbie. That's another lie. It's part of your job description that you yourself admitted.

So. How much do you make in salary? I'm not ashamed to tell someone how much I make. I make 80k a year. Not a lot, but not too shabby.

[_Infymus]

What's that smell?

Oh... Mormon Apologist in the room.

[_antishock8]

What's that smell?

Oh... Mormon Apologist in the room.

What's strange is the esteemed Mr. Peterson keeps making these grand farewells and repeatedly bids adieu to various posters... And yet...

I suppose some people leave Mormon Discussions, but can't leave Mormon Discussions alone. I feel sorry for them.

[_Mister Scratch]

"Massive"? "Sneaking"?

A "mysterious" and "clandestine" fundraiser?

LOL.

Go ahead and yuk it up. In the meantime, feel free to show where you've mentioned this stuff on the MADboard. You often claim to be heading out for "firesides" or whatever else, but the full truth is that you are also out doing "Missionary Work" for Mopologetics.

Yes, and what's even more intriguing is the fact that they apparently pay to fly DCP and this mysterious "fundraiser" out to various parts of the country in order to try and drum up donations. I have a dear friend who has worked for many years in university fundraising, and this sort of thing seems rather atypical.

Sending fundraisers out accompanied by deans, department chairs, or selected others who are judged useful is absolutely par for the course in university fundraising.

Intriguing. Please tell me: In what way does BYU/the Church judge Mopologetics to be "useful"?

And no, the Church does not pay for the paper for books, nor for their printing, nor for their binding, etc. The Church also didn't pay anything toward the filming, editing, etc., of the two Journey of Faith films. Nor has the Church paid for the Dead Sea Scrolls database that we've produced and on which we continue to work. And the Church doesn't pay for web design or book design, either.

Right. Just like "the Church" didn't "pay" for the Mark Hoffman documents. The Brethren have developed a rather clever way to avoid accountability.

We have to raise money for the Middle Eastern Texts Initiatve (METI), for our digitizing activities in Petra, the Vatican, Guatemala, Herculaneum, etc. The Church doesn't pay the salary of my full-time METI managing editor, either.

So, yes, I'm sometimes involved in fundraising.

The OP wasn't really about you so much (although you have tried rather strenuously to yank the attention back onto you); rather, it was about this mysterious "fund-raiser", and the fact that Matt Roper is a paid LDS apologist. Who else gets paid? Would you care to tell? Or is that information too "sensitive"? Also, is this clandestine "fund-raiser" paid by either BYU or the Church?

And, yes, I'm a paid Mopologist hack. I've made $50-100 in exceptionally lucrative years.

C'mon. You know that's not true. Part of your payment for Mopology comes from your salary, and you make money from your books. No one hear (as far as I know) is claiming that you do Mopologetics purely for money. I think most of us just disapprove of the long-perpetuated myth that you guys were doing it all as a volunteer effort.

In the end, I believe this constitutes yet another bit of evidence that the Church is paying for apologetics.

Oh yes indeed. The fact that the Maxwell Institute seeks donations from private persons and private foundations demonstrates beyond question that the Church is paying for apologetics.

Impeccable reasoning.

See my above comment re: the Mark Hoffman documents.

Of course, it is happening in the sneaking, "end around" way that we witnessed during the Mark Hoffman episode

Vintage Scratch malarky.

[/quote]

It has happened before. And you haven't been entirely forthright about the connection/relationship between apologetics and the Church. Why, for example, would the FP revise its statement on the Hill Cumorah in order to suit your and Hamblin's pet theory? Something is being kept in the dark here. Let the light of truth shine!

[_Mister Scratch]

I have to admit that, while I don't believe in spiritual forces, the comments about a "fundraiser" creeped me out a little bit. I don't have a good feeling at all about this individual and his or her activities.

Dude. I hear ya. Mega icky creepy.

Wanna see somethin that'll make yer flesh crawl? Check out this website:

http://www.LDS.org/ldsfoundation

This is the despicable clandestine organization that my mysterious sneaky fundraiser colleague works for.

Well, then, this means the the LDS Church reall is funding Mopologetics. If the Church itself is sending one of its own professional fund-raisers along with you on the trips, then the Church is working to keep apologetics alive and well. Sorry, my dear old friend Prof. P., but you have now rather stupidly ponied up the evidence that the Church helps to fund apologetics. D'oh!

[_Mister Scratch]

So, yes, I'm sometimes involved in fundraising.

And, yes, I'm a paid Mopologist hack. I've made $50-100 in exceptionally lucrative years.

Well, at least he admits to fundraising (which he never bothered to offer up before), and he admits to being a paid hack.

Mr. Peterson. How much is your BYU salary?

I personally have no interest in actual figures. It is just that I've long suspected that the Church itself is helping to fund LDS apologetics---something which DCP and others have denied up and down. Well, it turns out that I was right.

Incidentally, if you go to the website of The Chronicle of Higher Education, you can find average salaries for practically every university in the U.S. Oddly, there is no listing for BYU.