Bee Eff wrote:
I believe Joseph Smith's claim that he saw God and Christ as he stated, yes.
I believe that Christ did in fact rise from the dead, yes.
I believe that the various angelic visitations claimed by the LDS Church actually happened yes.
Exactly what is there to discuss on these points? It comes down to whether you believe the Man who made no friends in the area at the time or those that disagreed with him. Joseph Smith said, "I saw these things", and others who did not believe him say, " no you didn't."
As to the claims of the Book of Mormon, I have yet to see sufficient evidence that the story did not occur as it claims. Has the Book of Mormon been used to interpret archaeological finds? I believe the Smithsonian states it has not done so. Can the same be stated of the Bible? No, it is actually referenced by those performing the archaeological study. Perhaps if it were used, you would see the possibility of accuracy moreso, maybe not. I am not an archaeologist, so will not argue or debate the scientific fact, and really do not care overly about the archaeological claims to societal structure and individual motivation as I do not believe that we have sufficient environmental evidence to truly analyze the motivations behind the behaviors and actions of the illiterate, or perhaps simply those who used extinct language, in the past. We often have severe speculation only as to such things,.
Let's go for a discussion of the angelic visitations, shall we?
Here is a really good account of what he wanted people to believe about such things, from the hand of Joseph Smith himself - for the whole letter, see:
http://www.lightplanet.com/Mormons/peop ... etter.html(And quite a few other sources, both LDS and non-LDS: the content is not disputed)
Introduction
John Wentworth, editor of the Chicago Democrat, wrote Joseph Smith in 1842 to request information about the Church for a friend who was writing a history of New Hampshire. The "Wentworth Letter" was written by the Prophet Joseph Smith in response to this inquiry. The letter contains a brief History of the Church to 1842, including the key events in the restoration of the gospel. It states that the purpose of the Church is to take the gospel to every nation and prepare a people for the Millennium. The letter also describes concisely the origin, contents, and translation of the Book of Mormon. It concludes with thirteen doctrinal statements that have since become known as the Articles of Faith and are published in the Pearl of Great Price (HC 4:535-41). The contents of this letter were published March 1, 1842, in the Nauvoo Times and Seasons. There is no evidence that Wentworth or his friend, George Barstow, ever published it. In response to other inquiries in 1844, Joseph Smith sent revised copies of this letter to several publishers of works about various churches and religious groups. It has been published several times over the years (for the complete text of the letter, see Appendix item "Wentworth Letter" in Vol. 4).
The Wentworth Letter
1842—March 1—DHC 4:535-541
March 1, 1842.—At the request of Mr. John Wentworth, Editor and Proprietor of the Chicago Democrat. I have written the following sketch of the rise, progress, persecution, and faith of the Latter-day Saints, of which I have the honor, under God, of being the founder. Mr. Wentworth says that he wishes to furnish Mr. Bastow, a friend of his, who is writing the history of New Hampshire, with this document. As Mr. Bastow has taken the proper steps to obtain correct information, all that I shall ask at his hands, is, that he publish the account entire, ungarnished, and without misrepresentation.
I was born in the town of Sharon, Windsor County, Vermont, on the 23rd of December, A.D. 1805. When ten years old, my parents removed to Palmyra, New York, where we resided about four years, and from thence we removed to the town of Manchester. My father was a farmer and taught me the art of husbandry. When about fourteen years of age, I began to reflect upon the importance of being prepared for a future state, and upon inquiring [about] the plan of salvation, I found that there was a great clash in religious sentiment; if I went to one society they referred me to one plan, and another to another; each one pointing to his own particular creed as the summum bonum of perfection. Considering that all could not be right, and that God could not be the author of so much confusion, I determined to investigate the subject more fully, believing that if God had a Church it would not be split up into factions, and that if He taught one society to worship one way, and administer in one set of ordinances, He would not teach another, principles which were diametrically opposed.
Believing the word of God, I had confidence in the declaration of James—"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." I retired to a secret place in a grove, and began to call upon the Lord; while fervently engaged in supplication, my mind was taken away from the objects with which I was surrounded, and I was enwrapped in a heavenly vision, and saw two glorious personages, who exactly resembled each other in features and likeness, surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noon day. They told me that all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines, and that none of them was acknowledged of God as His Church and kingdom: and I was expressly commanded "to go not after them," at the same time receiving a promise that the fullness of the Gospel should at some future time be made known unto me.
On the evening on the 21st of September, A.D. 1823, while I was praying unto God, and endeavoring to exercise faith in the precious promises of Scripture, on a sudden a light like that of day, only of a far purer and more glorious appearance and brightness, burst into the room, indeed the first sight was as though the house was filled with consuming fire; the appearance produced a shock that affected the whole body; in a moment a personage stood before me surrounded with a glory yet greater than that with which I was already surrounded. This messenger proclaimed himself to be an angel of God, sent to bring the joyful tidings that the covenant which God made with ancient Israel was at hand to be fulfilled, that the preparatory work for the second coming of the Messiah was speedily to commence; that the time was at hand for the Gospel in all its fullness to be preached in power, unto all nations that a people might be prepared for the Millennial reign. I was informed that I was chosen to be an instrument in the hands of God to bring about some of His purposes in this glorious dispensation.
I was also informed concerning the aboriginal inhabitants of this country and shown who they were, and from whence they came; a brief sketch of their origin, progress, civilization, laws, governments, of their righteousness and iniquity, and the blessings of God being finally withdrawn from them as a people, was made known unto me; I was also told where were deposited some plates on which were engraven an abridgment of the records of the ancient Prophets that had existed on this continent. The angel appeared to me three times the same night and unfolded the same things. After having received many visits from the angels of God unfolding the majesty and glory of the events that should transpire in the last days, on the morning of the 22nd of September, A.D. 1827, the angel of the Lord delivered the records into my hands.
These records were engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long, and not quite so thick as common tin. They were filled with engravings, in Egyptian characters, and bound together in a volume as the leaves of a book, with three rings running through the whole. The volume was something near six inches in thickness, a part of which was sealed. The characters on the unsealed part were small, and beautifully engraved. The whole book exhibited many marks of antiquity in its construction, and much skill in the art of engraving. With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called "Urim and Thummim," which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rims of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God.
In this important and interesting book the history of ancient America is unfolded, from its first settlement by a colony that came from the Tower of Babel, at the confusion of languages to the beginning of the fifth century of the Christian Era. We are informed by these records that America in ancient times has been inhabited by two distinct races of people. The first were called Jaredites, and came directly from the Tower of Babel. The second race came directly from the city of Jerusalem, about six hundred years before Christ. They were principally Israelites, of the descendants of Joseph. The Jaredites were destroyed about the time that the Israelites came from Jerusalem, who succeeded them in the inheritance of the country. The principal nation of the second race fell in battle towards the close of the fourth century. The remnant are the Indians that now inhabit this country. This book also tells us that our Savior made His appearance unto this continent after His resurrection; that He planted the Gospel here in all its fulness, and richness, and power, and blessing; that they had Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists; the same order, the same priesthood, the same ordinances, gifts, powers, and blessings, as were enjoyed on the eastern continent, that the people were cut off in consequence of their transgressions, that the last of their prophets who existed among them was commanded to write an abridgment of their prophecies, history, &c, and to hide it up in the earth, and that it should come forth and be united with the Bible for the accomplishment of the purposes of God in the last days. For a more particular account I would refer to the Book of Mormon, which can be purchased at Nauvoo, or from any of our Traveling Elders.
As one can see, Smith makes the closest possible link between what the angel is supposed to have told him, and the historicity of the Book of Mormon. If the latter falls, then either Smith was not telling the truth about the angel or ... well, if you want to cling to the angel story you can always believe that the angel got it wrong, I suppose.
But hardly anybody who has studied the matter seriously, not even the BYU apologists at FARMS, believes that the archeology and ethnography of North America (which is clearly what Smith means when he refers to 'this country' and 'America' above) is remotely consistent with the Book of Mormon. That is why they have had to try setting the Book of Mormon story in Mesoamerica instead. And no-one, even at FARMS believes that the Native Americans who live in 'this country' are 'the remnant' of the Nephites/Lamanites. The most they will go for is that there may be a few Nephite genes mixed in there somewhere.
It is possible to refuse to discuss such matters, and instead to bear a testimony of a spiritual witness that the Book of Mormon is true. But you may find that most people don't see that as persuasive.