Mormon Dialogue board on the verge of death?

[_jon]

I don't agree with why me,

In my case, I had some questions.
I asked my local leaders those questions and they couldn't answer them. They sought answers on my behalf from higher authorities. They couldn't answer them either.
I was then told that I shouldn't be having questions, I should just ignore them and trust the Church leaders.
So I went looking for my answers, including using Official Church sources, and I got them. The Internet made it much easier to access those sources and to corroborate the answers.

My conclusions were:
1. The Church told me lies
2. The Church hides things
3. The Church doesn't practice what it preaches

[_why me]

Wrong,

You see, Julliane/nemesis/Will/whatever is cherry picking stats. If nemesis is honest he would compare May 2011 with May 2010 and even May 2009. Likewise, compare other months and other years. Also compare the number of individuals signing up to post on the board. Instead we have a six month layout of some simple stats. Nemesis chooses to avoid the fact that the board is completely dead compared to where it was in 2009.

Other strong LDS oriented boards have died and MAD will also join the ranks.

Let me spell it out for you: MDD will not die. However it has changed since the day when it was tied to FAIR. Lets look at antimormon discussion boards. No debate is allowed on these boards. Most are just a Mormon bash board. One view, the only view. Do you complain about such boards and their lack of freedom of expression. NO. Now we have MDD. Sure it is not the same as it was but then again that may be a good thing. Mormons need a place to discuss their faith and to allow a certain amount of freedom for critics to express themselves. And that is what we have now on FAIR. However, there is no freedom on exmormon sites or postmormon sites...no room for prolds discussion. Now Mormons would love to go to the postmo site and challenge the postmo posters on their interpretations but they are not allowed to do so. Why?

MDD will grow but it will grow in a different way from the old FAIR days.

MDD does allow for a certain amount of freedom for critics. But not to the extent it did when it was tied to FAIR. Critics have plenty of stalinist sites to choose from that only allow a one way discussion when it comes to Mormonism. Critics do not usually come to MDD to critically think their way through the process. They usually come to the board with their new belief system in place and fixed.

[_Redefined]

here is my visual impression of MAD:

An older gentleman dressed in a white temple suit with a long beard. The beard has food stuck in it and his pits are yellow.

So simple. I find it very poetic in a strange sort of artsy prosey sort of way Zeez, unleash your inner poet! :)

[_Themis]

And what does the LDS victim find giving a different interpretation if they are lucky to find such sites: FAIR and the FAIRwiki.

Luck? LOL They are actually easy to find, and they are the ones that do the most damage if you actually listen.

[_why me]

I don't agree with why me,

In my case, I had some questions.
I asked my local leaders those questions and they couldn't answer them. They sought answers on my behalf from higher authorities. They couldn't answer them either.
I was then told that I shouldn't be having questions, I should just ignore them and trust the Church leaders.
So I went looking for my answers, including using Official Church sources, and I got them. The Internet made it much easier to access those sources and to corroborate the answers.

My conclusions were:
1. The Church told me lies
2. The Church hides things
3. The Church doesn't practice what it preaches

There is no one way, the only way. People reach these internet boards through various ways and means. But here you are shoring up your new belief system with othe like minded individuals.

What lies did the church tell you?

And how does it not practice what it teaches?

Now I will admit, the LDS church was much more open in the past about its history. Go to theEnign from the 70's and 80's and their was much discussion. But today, the focus is different. I would like it to go back to the 70's and 80's when more information about history and events in history that were controversial were discussed. But very few if any churches have published their indepth history in books that covers the positves and negatives about their history. But they are available from other sources.

[_jon]

Why me,

I think that the lies the Church told/tells and it's hypocrisy are probably worthy of two seperate threads of their own.

I will however give you some brief examples:

Some lies...
The Church told me that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from Gold plates using the Urim & Thummim. He didn't.
The Church told me that the Book of Abraham was written by Abraham on the papyrus and that Joseph translated it. Not true.
The Church told me that Polygamy was a very small practice done by the early pioneers to take care of the women who were widowed when crossing the plains. It wasn't.
The Church told me that the Book of Mormon contained the fulness of the Gospel. It doesn't contain the fulness of Mormon Gospel.

Here is another great example of Mormon integrity...
The former Massachusetts governor who is running for president was pressed about the polarizing issue this week but all Romney replied with was "nice try."
"Do you personally think homosexuality is a sin?" Morgan asked, well aware of Romney's Mormon faith. "Nice try," Romney answered. "It's a valid question and my answer is nice try."
(from this weeks Piers Morgan programme)
Romney may have sounded better had he stated 'I don't know that we teach that...etc'

Some hypocrisy...
Members are to give generously to help the poor and the needy. The Church does not do this.
Members are to seek the truth through searching, studying and praying. Members are told not to question but to just follow the Church Leaders. And the infamous 'some things that are true are not useful'.
'We do not get involved in Politics' vs Proposition 8.
All men will be punished for their own sins...except if they are Black.
Women are of equal standing to men...except they're not.
We are a peculiar people...except we will go on TV saying we're just like everybody else.
Secret combinations are of the devil...the temple 'stuff' is not what we meant when we said secret combination ;-) ;-)

I think you are here because you have found that these discussions and debates cannot be held within the confines of 'God's true Church' where suppression (of information and of free will) subjugation and hypocrisy are the norms.

I'm here for exactly those reasons.

[_lostindc]

Let me spell it out for you: MDD will not die. However it has changed since the day when it was tied to FAIR. Lets look at antimormon discussion boards. No debate is allowed on these boards. Most are just a Mormon bash board. One view, the only view. Do you complain about such boards and their lack of freedom of expression. NO. Now we have MDD. Sure it is not the same as it was but then again that may be a good thing. Mormons need a place to discuss their faith and to allow a certain amount of freedom for critics to express themselves. And that is what we have now on FAIR. However, there is no freedom on exmormon sites or postmormon sites...no room for prolds discussion. Now Mormons would love to go to the postmo site and challenge the postmo posters on their interpretations but they are not allowed to do so. Why?

MDD will grow but it will grow in a different way from the old FAIR days.

MDD does allow for a certain amount of freedom for critics. But not to the extent it did when it was tied to FAIR. Critics have plenty of stalinist sites to choose from that only allow a one way discussion when it comes to Mormonism. Critics do not usually come to MDD to critically think their way through the process. They usually come to the board with their new belief system in place and fixed.

Wow, I did not know that FAIR has chosen to distance themselves from MAD. This explains a lot. This is far more worse than I imagined. Judging by your post I must have swayed you into agreeing that MAD is at least on a decline. At least we can agree on this statement. I have not been a really long time poster on LDS message boards but I do recall hearing about a similar board coming to a crashing end using similar tactics that nemesis is using. I am still waiting for nemesis to post the stats I have been requesting.

[_Buffalo]

Some people are interested in knowing more than what is in the Sunday School manuals, and sometimes they find that the truth isn't the rosy scenario they were taught. But you think people like Zee went out and purposely looked for stuff that would allow them to hurt their families, destroy friendships, and turn their worldviews upside-down.

Here is what I think happens. People find information on the internet about LDS history and Joseph Smith. Usually they find this information from websites that are not friendly to the LDS church and these websites give their own interpretation to the events. Then, the LDS victim of such sites begins to search other sites by googling such information that is found from the first site. More sites show up on the search engine and the LDS victim begins to read these sites for more information. These sites are also not friendly to the LDS church and give an interpretation of the information that is not far off from the first site looked at.

And what does the LDS victim find giving a different interpretation if they are lucky to find such sites: FAIR and the FAIRwiki. But the amount of antimormon sites with such information far outnumber the Mormon friendly sites and these sites are written in such a way to cast doubt in the LDS mind about their church.

The LDS victim has his or her testimony shaken and begins their journey of discovery by finding more information about different LDS topics on the antisites with their own interpretation of facts. And as such, we have people like zee and others on postmormon sites.

Then, they may come to a board like this or some other discussion board that shores up their disappointment by allowing them to communicate with others that were disappointed with what they have found on the internet.

Now is critical thinking dead? Perhaps. Most people these days using the internet for discussion purposes are on sites in which they agree with. Most are not on unfriendly sites to their belief system. And of course to prove my point: I have been banned from postmo and from NOM for not courting to the antimormon tone of the board.

And that is the problem with such boards. No debate is encouraged. Now is the foyer the same? Perhaps so.

Actually, the apologetic responses from FAIR were much more damaging to my testimony than anything "anti". As a TBM I was trained to distrust outside sources. But FAIR simultaneously verified some of the damaging information and then gave very poor excuses for it. That's tough for a chapel Mormon to swallow.

[_truth dancer]

Are there any critics/non-believers left on the MDD board?

I'm guessing, these days the MDDB is more like a gospel doctrine class, only filled with the folk who want to ask questions and engage in discussion outside the approved curriculum but can't during Sunday School.

~td~

[_lostindc]

Are there any critics/non-believers left on the MDD board?

I'm guessing, these days the MDDB is more like a gospel doctrine class, only filled with the folk who want to ask questions and engage in discussion outside the approved curriculum but can't during Sunday School.

~td~

There are a minimal amount and a few newbies that likely won't last long. The board is strictly a "yes mamn or yes sir" environment.