The "Final Solution"?

[_Runtu]

Well, saying I think it does more good than harm is very different from saying I think people should believe in it. I'm with EAllusion. I don't think people should believe unreasonable things. But as long as people are being unreasonable, they could do a lot worse than Mormonism. That's all I'm saying.

+1

[_Sethbag]

Well, saying I think it does more good than harm is very different from saying I think people should believe in it. I'm with EAllusion. I don't think people should believe unreasonable things. But as long as people are being unreasonable, they could do a lot worse than Mormonism. That's all I'm saying.

I agree that a person could do a lot worse than Mormonism. Not a very good salespitch though.

[_zeezrom]

Well, saying I think it does more good than harm is very different from saying I think people should believe in it. I'm with EAllusion. I don't think people should believe unreasonable things. But as long as people are being unreasonable, they could do a lot worse than Mormonism. That's all I'm saying.

I understand. I wish everyone could understand that. If everyone understood this, the world would be happier.

For many people, this is the reason to stay in the program. "It does more good than harm, so I'm stayin' "

But what if the good makes up 51.78% and the harm makes up 48.22% of the experience? Who would feel okay about saying "this does more good than harm."? No, in this case, you would want to say, "Wow, it does a lot of harm."

What about water quality? "Your drinking water only has 100 parts per billion arsenic in it." Or, the age-old analogy of poop in your yummy cake.

We can't make simple measurements of harm and good. Or can we?

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Seth

And Ceeboo: note that I said in concept I'd like to see people give up their beliefs in what is really sheer fantasy, but in practice the fallout from that, in a great many ways, would be such that whether or not this would be a good thing overall is subject to great debate, and I have no idea what the outcome of that debate would be. I'm thereby content to confine my discussions about Mormonism to the self-selecting crowd willing to frequent a discussion board devoted to the topic.

Fair enough!

I was just offering my "wow" on your "delight" should the 7 plus billion people on earth consider leaving their "fantasy" beliefs and adhering to beliefs that mirror yours.

Imagine the delight of over 7 billion Seth's walking among us? LOL!

:)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Fence Sitter]

I understand. I wish everyone could understand that. If everyone understood this, the world would be happier.

For many people, this is the reason to stay in the program. "It does more good than harm, so I'm stayin' "

But what if the good makes up 51.78% and the harm makes up 48.22% of the experience? Who would feel okay about saying "this does more good than harm."? No, in this case, you would want to say, "Wow, it does a lot of harm."

What about water quality? "Your drinking water only has 100 parts per billion arsenic in it." Or, the age-old analogy of poop in your yummy cake.

We can't make simple measurements of harm and good. Or can we?

Zee,

The question for you isn't if it does more harm than good for you, the question is are you better off some where else or even are you better off outside than in? (You meaning you and those important to you.)

[_zeezrom]

Zee,

The question for you isn't if it does more harm than good for you, the question is are you better off some where else or even are you better off outside than in? (You meaning you and those important to you.)

You're right, FS. I'm starting to think it does more harm to stay out (for me and mine). Dammit!

[_Blixa]

Anyone here disagree that the world would be better off without this blight on religion and humanity?

Yes I disagree, nor would I call it a blight.

I'm with Fence Sitter.

As for the "more good than harm" equation, eh, I think its kind of hard to put things in those terms.

I think the harm it does do is very problematic; meddling with politics that impact non-believers lives and creating a structure which makes honest dissent and disagreement pretty difficult for individual believers and their families is clearly not a good thing. And the authoritarian and quasi-fundamentalist nature of the current institutional structure belies the claim of encouraging the "further light and knowledge" that is a historical part of the doctrinal discourse. But I'm certainly well read and experienced enough to know that the bearers of these reactionary aspects of Mormonism, as found in a few posters here and on MDD, are hardly commensurable with "Mormonism" itself.

[_Blixa]

Zee,

The question for you isn't if it does more harm than good for you, the question is are you better off some where else or even are you better off outside than in? (You meaning you and those important to you.)

You're right, FS. I'm starting to think it does more harm to stay out (for me and mine). Dammit!

It may look like that in the short term, zeez, but I think looking at the long term would give you a different picture. I could not have pursued the intellectual life I wanted, nor followed my passions, had I remained a Mormon. But because my family was not TBM, I also had the "cultural room" to make those decisions for myself and that's something I think you want for your children, as well.

[_Hoops]

As for the "more good than harm" equation, eh, I think its kind of hard to put things in those terms.

I think the harm it does do is very problematic; meddling with politics that impact non-believers lives and creating a structure which makes honest dissent and disagreement pretty difficult for individual believers and their families is clearly not a good thing. And the authoritarian and quasi-fundamentalist nature of the current institutional structure belies the claim of encouraging the "further light and knowledge" that is a historical part of the doctrinal discourse. But I'm certainly well read and experienced enough to know that the bearers of these reactionary aspects of Mormonism, as found in a few posters here and on MDD, are hardly commensurable with "Mormonism" itself.

As usual, Blixa offers a reasonable contribution.

Granted, this is a board about Mormonism, but much of what you've described here can be applied to a lot of views - religious and non-religious alike. Is there anything distinctive about Mormonism that would invite its dismantling? (Of course, I think so, but for a reason you would not support).

[_Yoda]

It may look like that in the short term, zeez, but I think looking at the long term would give you a different picture. I could not have pursued the intellectual life I wanted, nor followed my passions, had I remained a Mormon. But because my family was not TBM, I also had the "cultural room" to make those decisions for myself and that's something I think you want for your children, as well.

I agree with Blixa, Zee. I think that if your family is ALL out, and you and your wife have made those decisions, and your children are, overall, happier without the Church, then stay out.

I think it depends on whether or not you are ALL OUT or ALL IN, if that makes sense.