Dear Droopy: Joseph Smith said the Lamanites are a race

[_DarkHelmet]

funny. The culture worked just fine for thousands and thousands of years. You need to read some books on Native American culture that were written more recently than 1830, and were written by people who actually studied the cultures.

1. What culture? What specific culture did I mention anywhere?

2. If you are here speaking of American Indian culture, yes, it "worked" if by that you mean various groups of Amerindians survived to pass on that culture to their descendents. Viking culture also "worked," as did Spartan, Mongol, and Aztec culture. What do you mean that it "worked?"

Clearly then, for you, allied cultures grounded for thousands of years to various degrees in the glory and honor of fighting and dying bravely in battle, genocidal warfare, slavery, cannibalism, human sacrifice, and conquering the lands of other Indians, "works." Viking culture "worked," but perhaps not for many other Europeans. Samurai culture "worked." Is that a culture you would feel comfortable within, or, especially, living under?

What about outlaw Biker culture, helmet? The Hell's Angels, Pagans, Warlocks etc. Does that culture "work?" Explain your answer, please?

Please analyze and describe Southern U.S. and U.K. "redneck" culture and how it "works."

Please read the following carefully, and think about it and its implications as and after you've read it.

http://carnageandculture.blogspot.com/2 ... their.html

So now you are comparing Native American culture to Hells Angels. Pagans, Bikers, and Rednecks. Keep talking, Droopy. This is hilarious.

[_DarkHelmet]

Here was my broad, generalized response:

No, its an inferior culture, period. Its a culture that does not "work" in that it does not encourage or support, in a critical number of its members, the kind of values, attitudes, perceptions, ethics, virtues, and moral concepts necessary to the maintenance of a viable and successful social order.

In other words, children, a determination of inferiority as to culture qua culture, has no necessary relation to racism at all. It may be quite rationally and empirically grounded.

Now that helmet has been caught red-handed lying through his teeth regarding this statement, and willfully altering the text, with the connivance of the other main protagonists here, the thread is not effectively over the cliff.

I lied about your statement? I replaced "it's" with Native Americans in brackets. So if you aren't talking about native americans, what culture are you talking about?

[_Droopy]

One wonders why God hasn't cursed rednecks and crackers with a dark skin, since their culture is so inferior.

One must also wonder why God didn't curse the deeply wicked Nephites, during the dregs of their many "pride cycles" with a dark skin, or the Jaradites, who also self destructed in their own wickedness centuries prior to the arrival of the Nephites.

Could it possibly be that you don't understand what the Book of Mormon is trying to say, and perhaps don't know what you're talking about?

Perish the thought.

[_Bob Loblaw]

In other words, children, a determination of inferiority as to culture qua culture, has no necessary relation to racism at all. It may be quite rationally and empirically grounded.

Please explain to us how you determine whether a culture is inferior, and inferior to what.

Now that helmet has been caught red-handed lying through his teeth regarding this statement, and willfully altering the text, with the connivance of the other main protagonists here, the thread is not effectively over the cliff.

Hey, you're the guy who tried to divorce the "curse" of the Lamanites from skin color. The scriptures are pretty clear as to the relationship:

Wickedness=>Cursed with dark skin=>Filthy, loathsome, lazy

And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations.

And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.

[_Cylon]

The same is true with regard to the Jaradites, who were just as much from the House of Israel as the Lamanties and the Nephites, and hence, a divergent culture and ethnic background, not different "races" in the pre and especially post-antebellum South and modern PC sense.

The Jaredites weren't from the house of Israel. They left shortly after the confounding of languages at the tower of Babel, which was long before Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob were even born. And the Book of Mormon says nothing about the ancestry of Jared or his family. It also says nothing about the color of their skin. It's too bad Joseph Smith decided to have them be wiped out before the Nephites got there. Otherwise apologists could claim that they were from Asia and that's why Native Americans have Asian DNA.

[_Droopy]

I lied about your statement?

Yes, and you substantially altered the text to mean what you wanted it to mean.

I replaced "it's" with Native Americans in brackets. So if you aren't talking about native americans, what culture are you talking about?

None. Any. I was speaking, as tapirrider was, of any critique of any culture in which negative or crippling cultural attributes, attitudes, and traditions are found.

You could have easily gotten that from observing the context of the discussion, as opposed to imposing your own ideological agenda upon it.

[Guest]

Otherwise apologists could claim that they were from Asia and that's why Native Americans have Asian DNA.

I've seen apologists argue just that. You see, when the Book of Mormon says everyone was killed, everyone didn't mean everyone (just like steel doesn't mean steel, horse doesn't mean horse, sword doesn't mean sword, millions doesn't mean millions, empty doesn't mean empty, dark skin doesn't refer to skin, and so on.)

[Guest]

None. Any. I was speaking, as tapirrider was, of any critique of any culture in which negative or crippling cultural attributes, attitudes, and traditions are found.

You could have easily gotten that from observing the context of the discussion, as opposed to imposing your own ideological agenda upon it.

The context of the discussion is the depiction of Lamanites and how that depiction is offensive to people living today. This is the culture we are talking about. What other people living today would be offended by the depiction of Lamanites? Rednecks? bikers? Why are you bringing rednecks and bikers into this? You are all over the place.

[_Droopy]

The same is true with regard to the Jaradites, who were just as much from the House of Israel as the Lamanties and the Nephites, and hence, a divergent culture and ethnic background, not different "races" in the pre and especially post-antebellum South and modern PC sense.

The Jaredites weren't from the house of Israel. They left shortly after the confounding of languages at the tower of Babel, which was long before Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob were even born. And the Book of Mormon says nothing about the ancestry of Jared or his family. It also says nothing about the color of their skin. It's too bad Joseph Smith decided to have them be wiped out before the Nephites got there. Otherwise apologists could claim that they were from Asia and that's why Native Americans have Asian DNA.

Abraham's progenitors must have been among them, in which case, being from a very similar and closely related geographical and ethnic background, contributed to the future DNA of the 12 tribes.

Roll the dice again.

[_Bob Loblaw]

One must also wonder why God didn't curse the deeply wicked Nephites, during the dregs of their many "pride cycles" with a dark skin, or the Jaradites, who also self destructed in their own wickedness centuries prior to the arrival of the Nephites.

Don't you read your scriptures? They were cursed, too.

And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.

At the time of Christ's coming, they are said to have become one people, with no distinctions between them. You are left with two options:

1. Nephites and Lamanites intermingled, and everyone became darker skinned.

2. In some Kimballesque miracle, the Lamanites became white.

Could it possibly be that you don't understand what the Book of Mormon is trying to say, and perhaps don't know what you're talking about?

Perish the thought.

Is your irony intentional or not? Whichever, it's hysterical.