?'s for Kishkumen

[_Kishkumen]

Applauding.....

Thank you for your wonderful Sunstone presentation. It really affected me in a positive way.

[_Fence Sitter]

Why is is that so many people adopt such a crude manichean view of LDS identity? On one side of the spectrum, this type of thinking motivates a great deal of the very worst aspects of mopolagetics (specifically, the desire to seek out and destroy the "wolves in sheep's clothing" or to "separate the wheat from the tares" or to "spit out the lukewarm" etc.). Yet on the other hand, we have folks who choose screen names like "Nomomo" and who like to say things like "Morg" or "Utard." They also see it as "silly" for someone to call themselves Mormon because they see it as an abdication of reason, or worse, a lack of integrity. As an example, just take a look at most of the comments on this thread on RFM on John Dehlin's Sunstone talk: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,586254

Religion, belief and identity are complicated things people! This type of thinking is just the flip-side of the same coin as mopolagetics.

+1

I agree. I consider myself Mormon. Whether or not others do is not really all that important to me. This discussion sounds a lot like the "Are Mormons Christians?" discussion.

[_Kishkumen]

I consider myself Mormon. Whether or not others do is not really all that important to me.

Solidarity.

[_Morley]

I consider myself Mormon. Whether or not others do is not really all that important to me.

Solidarity.

I resigned from the Church, long, long ago.

That doesn't stop me from thinking of myself as a 'small-m Mormon.' I own the culture and the history as much as anyone else.

[_Kishkumen]

I resigned from the Church, long, long ago.

That doesn't stop me from thinking of myself as a 'small-m Mormon.' I own the culture and the history as much as anyone.

Solidarity.

Years ago I started a Yahoo Group called "Loyal Liberal Mormons" because I felt that people are entitled to their small "m" Mormon identity just as much as anyone else is entitled to theirs if they should so choose.

[_zeezrom]

Now, finally, thanks to the efforts of people like John Dehlin, [and etc], I can see that very many good, upstanding LDS people do not turn LDS identity into the black & white vision that certain LDS apologists present when they write attack pieces against their ideological foes. This has me rethinking very many things.

Like you, I see numerous ex-Mormons as representing the flip side of this all or nothing formula.

I want to be there too! Trying...

[_Kishkumen]

I want to be there too! Trying...

You're my friend, wherever you may be.

[_zeezrom]

I want to be there too! Trying...

You're my friend, wherever you may be.

Thank you. And to be clear, I mean that I want to stop looking at the church like a Sith: in absolutes or black & white. I want to see the good along with the bad. I want to stop being afraid that the organization will influence my children the way I *let* it influence me. It really hasn't had that much influence on me. I am beginning to realize it now. My circle of narrow-minded and like-minded friends had a huge impact on me. My own interpretation of things had a huge influence. My parent's silence and submission to the church had an influence on me. The church itself had less influence on me.

My children don't have to go through the damned shaming I went through. They don't have to worry that they aren't worthy of heaven. They don't have to believe God is always disappointed in them. They don't have to feel that everyone else around them is more worthy than them. They don't have to have any of this, even if we stay involved.

This is a revelation. It is buried in some obscure thread on MDB. But it is a big revelation for me.

[_Morley]

Thank you. And to be clear, I mean that I want to stop looking at the church like a Sith: in absolutes or black & white. I want to see the good along with the bad. I want to stop being afraid that the organization will influence my children the way I *let* it influence me. It really hasn't had that much influence on me. I am beginning to realize it now. My circle of narrow-minded and like-minded friends had a huge impact on me. My own interpretation of things had a huge influence. My parent's silence and submission to the church had an influence on me. The church itself had less influence on me.

My children don't have to go through the damned shaming I went through. They don't have to worry that they aren't worthy of heaven. They don't have to believe God is always disappointed in them. They don't have to feel that everyone else around them is more worthy than them. They don't have to have any of this, even if we stay involved.

This is a revelation. It is buried in some obscure thread on MDB. But it is a big revelation for me.

My gawd, I love this.

[_Darth J]

And to be clear, I mean that I want to stop looking at the church like a Sith: in absolutes or black & white.

First of all, zeezrom, the Sith never purported to think in absolutes. That was a Jedi mischaracterization of their code.

Second, it was notably ironic for Obi-wan Kenobi to say, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

I suggest that you consider what the Sith really believe, as it pertains to the rest of your post:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

And I will further thank you to stop misrepresenting our beliefs! Good day to you, sir!