WE Worship Jesus and have Personal Relationship

[_ldsfaqs]

Thanks for the clarification. You well know my view of Mormonism but I do admit that the intentions of most Mormons is to seek and find God but they have been (how can I say it) persuaded to follow a counterfeit gospel with all that entails. The markings on the Salt Lake LDS temple have been explained to me as "innocent decorations", a response that I find troubling. If they are innocent markings why are some of them (the inverted pentagram for instance) repeated over and over on various newer LDS buildings in Salt Lake even though the connection of those markings to the occult have been well exposed. Prior to the 1930s it is possible that people might innocently have used the swastika as "decoration" but who in their right mind today would use it as innocent decoration knowing what we now know and what it is connected to and how it is perceived? I personally believe there is willful intent on the part of Mormon leadership which might not be recognized or even seen by the average member who takes things with good, if not mistaken intent.

It never ceases to amaze me the "degree" of anti-mormon willful bigotry and ignorance, their willingness to only see what justifies thier hate rather than the actual truth of things.

Mormonism is BEYOND "modern social conventions" (so-called movies and satan worship), it is Eternal. For it comes from the Eternal God.
Tell me, do also condemn "Christmas" for all the "pagan" things in it???
Do you condemn all the historical AND modern Christian religions, buildings, etc. that use these so called "Satanic" symbols?
Do you condemn Judaism for it's historical and modern usage of these symbols???

"sataaaaaaaaan".......!!!!! (snl)

Please educate yourself and remove darkness from your mind and soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2ElU0pr5oM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwCqLFXaWyg

http://en.fairmormon.org/Temples/Invert ... DS_Temples

http://mormanity.blogspot.com/2004/07/o ... mples.html

http://symboldictionary.net/?s=pentagram

[_ldsfaqs]

Pentagram (pentacle, pentangle, pentalpha)
The pentagram is a five pointed star commonly associated with Wicca, Ritual magick, Satanism, and Masonry. The Pentagram has a long and complex history as a religious symbol. Found scrawled in caves of ancient Babylonia, the five pointed star was copied from the star shaped pattern formed by the travels of the planet Venus in the sky.

The emblem remained popular through many cultures and time periods- it was called the pentalpha by the Greeks, who believed it had magical properties.

For a time, a pentagram was the official seal of the city of Jerusalem:



In later times, it was used by medieval Christians to symbolize the five wounds of Christ, and figured in the heavily symbolic Arthurian romances. In medieval times, the pentagram represented the proportions of the human body.

Through the Middle Ages and Renaissance, the pentagram was commonly used (ironically) as a charm against witches and demons. (like other protective knots, it was considered effective only if drawn perfectly)

It was not until the twentieth century that the pentagram became associated with Satanism, probably due to misinterpretation of symbols used by ceremonial magicians.

In alchemical texts, the four elements (in Latin)- flatus, ignus, aqua, terra, superseded by light, or divine energy- illustrated the process of creation, and the biblical motto Fiat Lux, or, “let there be light.”

In Wiccan/Pagan lore, the pentagram symbolizes the five elements- earth, air, water, fire, and spirit. The Wiccan emblematic pentagram faces point upward to symbolize the triumph of spirit over matter; the Satanic pentagram is transposed, point downwards, to symbolize earthly gratification, or the triumph of the individual over dissolution. Some Wiccan initiatory grades also utilize a reversed pentacle, although for different purposes.



A pentacle used for ritual purposes in Gardnerian Wicca

A pentagram enclosed within a circle is known as a pentacle, although pentacles do not always contain pentagrams.

For a more detailed look at the history and meaning of this symbol: The Pentagram.

More information: http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1893

[_Albion]

ldsfaqs, I will avoid the personal attacks which do seem to me to be part and parcel of any response you make to criticisms of Mormonism. The only "hate" I see here is that expressed in your post. On another thread you defined criticism of Mormonism as outside of your definition of the term "anti-Mormon". What I posted was a valid criticism of what I perceive as a dubious explanation of the markings on many Mormon temples and other buildings. Those markings to the world at large are symbols still of the occult while symbols such as Christmas trees have long since lost any such connection to their pagan origins. Just as we now would consider the use of the swastika as offensive in light of more modern connections to it, I find it puzzling that the Mormon Church continues to use such markings even though we clearly know today just what they are connected to....the inverted pentagram being only one symbol closely associated with the occult....as you clearly define in most of your examples. Given the heavy focus on the dead within Mormon temples perhaps they are appropriate within Mormon reasoning and theology?

You may disagree with my characterization of Mormonism, and that is your right, but I reject completely your charge of ignorance. I know full well what Mormonism teaches and find it wanting both Biblically and in terms of the Christian Gospel.....being well "beyond" those parameters.

[_ldsfaqs]

Albion, your statements are incredibly ignorant and bigoted because several major religions including Judaism STILL USE the 5 pointed star.

If no major religion used that symbol anymore, than your "analogy" would be somewhat valid. But since the 5 pointed star has been used ALL THROUGH HUMAN HISTORY in relation to Godly/religious matters, and since major religions not simply us still use the symbol, your "views" are in fact nothing more than bigotry.

Satanism is practically non-existent, yet you would want major religions to get rid of and not use the symbol simply because some small # idiots on the planet use it for their own purposes??? Please, grow up. Your analogy further fails because Paganism is just as "prolific" as Satanism, thus by your standard the multiple Christmas symbols should also be "Satanic". It fails even more because religious history has used many of those same Christmas symbols that paganism used long before paganism or at least at the same times.

Even more, Satanism usually uses the 5 pointed star with a "circle" around it, yet, where is that in Mormonism??? Hmmmm????

So, no matter how you cut the cheese, your "judgement" in this matter and all other matters when it concerns Mormonism is entirely based in bigotry and ignorance. Sorry, but that's the facts. I've debunked you from multiple angles, and if you continue to believe your perversion, well, that makes you guess what?

[_Albion]

Not sure I should even be bothering top answer this post, ldsfaqs. If you follow form you will likely disappear and leave it floating for an indeterminate time period. But...first I suggest you do a visual comparison with the five pointed star of Judaism and the one that is all over Mormon Church buildings in downtown SLC which feature an elongated lower point. There is a vast difference. I think you miss my point entirely. Essentially, I pose a question...which I will do again. Why does the Mormon Church continue to use symbols that today are generally considered to be symbols of the occult, no matter their past associations, when the connections to the occult have been pointed out to them? My swastika comparison is a valid one.

You continually charge me with ignorance of Mormonism...a charge I reject. I would place my knowledge of Mormonism on an equal basis with yours. I will admit to being opposed to Mormonism, a theology and belief system that I find inconsistent with Biblical Christianity and which represents a counterfeit gospel that is an assault on the very fundamentals of the Christian faith. I would remind you that from its inception in the mind of Joseph Smith it has been an enemy of the Christian faith...Smith himself proclaiming that all those who "profess" it are corrupt and an abomination.

You may not agree with my position but it is fully directed at Mormonism and is not personal in any way, unlike your last statement in the above post.....

I did not raise the question of stars within circles but if you check I think they can be found in some window designs

[_ldsfaqs]

Not sure I should even be bothering top answer this post, ldsfaqs. If you follow form you will likely disappear and leave it floating for an indeterminate time period. But...first I suggest you do a visual comparison with the five pointed star of Judaism and the one that is all over Mormon Church buildings in downtown Salt Lake City which feature an elongated lower point. There is a vast difference. I think you miss my point entirely. Essentially, I pose a question...which I will do again. Why does the Mormon Church continue to use symbols that today are generally considered to be symbols of the occult, no matter their past associations, when the connections to the occult have been pointed out to them? My swastika comparison is a valid one.

Ugh.....

I really do wonder about people.

1. There are ALL kinds of stars on LDS Temples, including those of Salt Lake, NOT simply some "elongated" point one as you claim. Further, how is that "Satanic"???

2. Second, I didn't miss your point at all. Your point would only be valid if ONLY "satanists" used the 5 pointed star, as basically ONLY Neo-Nazi's use the Swastika today. In contrast, Judaism and several other religions INCLUDING Christianity on it's buildings, materials beliefs, etc. STILL USE the 5 pointed star. Your point is therefor completely invalid. The only people who care about Mormons using the 5 pointed star is bigoted Christians who have blinders on to the rest of the world where the symbol is used in a NON-Satanic way!!!

3. Even worse.... Do you think God really cares that satanists "mimick" HIS SYMBOLS for their own means, when HE STILL USES THEM???

You have been debunked every which way, and you don't care because you don't care about the truth, you only care about your bigotry.

You continually charge me with ignorance of Mormonism...a charge I reject. I would place my knowledge of Mormonism on an equal basis with yours. I will admit to being opposed to Mormonism, a theology and belief system that I find inconsistent with Biblical Christianity and which represents a counterfeit gospel that is an assault on the very fundamentals of the Christian faith. I would remind you that from its inception in the mind of Joseph Smith it has been an enemy of the Christian faith...Smith himself proclaiming that all those who "profess" it are corrupt and an abomination.

Your judgments show the ignorance of Mormonism.
Further, I've been a believing Christian most of my life, converted to Mormonism, left Mormonism and religion and was anti-mormon. I think I know "how ignorant" people are when they make statements concerning Mormonism. I've seen it all, I know all aspects.

You can't even represent simple "religious symbols" honestly, factually, and truthfully, and you actually think your knowledge and understanding compares to ANY educated Mormon? Please

You may not agree with my position but it is fully directed at Mormonism and is not personal in any way, unlike your last statement in the above post.....

I don't care about you not agreeing with Mormonism, I care about your bearing false witness of it, and you claiming to be Christian. Such is the height of hypocricy and also going against Christ's own words towards those not with the Church, not only his words as shown in those chapters I mention.

I don't agree with a lot of things, but I NEVER bear false witness of them in order to be critical if needed. I actually believe in being honest before my fellow men.

I did not raise the question of stars within circles but if you check I think they can be found in some window designs

It can likely be found, but still, so what? It can also be found in Judaism. Further, how many "up-side-down" stars can you find? Not many. Likewise, some in Judaism, but not many. Still doesn't mean "Satanic".

Symbols have general meanings, and meanings to the people who use them.
Again, you should be condemning Christmas if you don't use double standards, because much of it was Pagan for most of history. By your standard, Christmas symbols are evil, and are actually "Satanic" because that is after all how they've always been known.

Your argument and judgment is flawed and immoral from every direction. Sorry, repent.

[_ldsfaqs]

Oh, and one other thing.... There are FAR MORE JEWS in the world, FAR MORE CHRISTIANS etc. of other Faiths that use the 5 Pointed Star in all kinds of ways, let alone us, than there are "satanists" in the world.

Your argument fails....

You shouldn't confuse "Hollywood" popularity as being the same as reality and truth.
Further, even that likely isn't true, because the 5 pointed star in the various religions is STILL likely seen more in the various movies.

So, you fail..... Start basing your judgments and truth and fact for a change rather than a little truth used to tell great lies.

[_ldsfaqs]

Oh, and the very fact that Mormons have told you clearly and in every way possible all the things it means to us, things that are not Satanic, and also make clear that "satanism" has nothing to do with the symbols to us, AND that we don't believe in and follow satanism, FURTHER makes you one big LIAR.....

Christmas doesn't mean "Pagan" to you, so stop lying about us as to what the symbols mean to us.

Good people are fair..... What are you?

[_ldsfaqs]

Oh, and another thing.... Mormons were putting the symbol on their Temples WELL BEFORE "satanism" was really using the symbol, which essentially started and popularized as a symbol of occult in the 1940's.

[_Albion]

ldsfaqs, I am responding to your post(s) perhaps against my better judgement since I find your personal attacks to be quite objectionable. I am quite willing to accept the sincerity of your position yet you apparently are not able to reciprocate preferring such labels as liar and ignorant. As I said before, I will place my knowledge of Mormonism on a par with yours.

That said, I am fully aware that individual Mormons do not interpret the symbols on temples and other buildings with Satanism (did I even say that?) but I do believe there is a major disconnect between them and the founding intent of Joseph Smith who was actively involved in some questionable practices... folk magic...masonry and its rituals, seer stones in hats..Jupiter talisman and such... and his clear emphasis on the dead within Mormon temple ritual does nothing, IMV, to lessen that connection. Nowhere within a Mormon temple is the cross, the universal symbol of Christianity and the risen Christ who overcame sin and death, seen...and yet within the highest token of the temple's ritual the very nails that held Christ to that cross are elevated as representative of the holiest of priesthoods to which only Jesus can lay claim. That, my friend, is puzzling in the extreme when seen through the lens of Biblical Christianity.