Everybody Wang Chung...Time to Return and Report

[_Yoda]

All I can say is that it must suck to be a serving bishop and to disbelieve. So much time, so much effort, so many opportunities to encourage practices antithetical to the dictates of your own conscience.

Does Everybody Wang Chung completely disbelieve? He struck me as having more of a NOM perspective.

Frankly, if he is an out and out disbeliever, I am confused as to why he chose to serve as bishop, and am curious about his decision to do so.

I wanted to bump this question for Everybody Wang Chung so he has a chance to respond.

[_sock puppet]

All I can say is that it must suck to be a serving bishop and to disbelieve. So much time, so much effort, so many opportunities to encourage practices antithetical to the dictates of your own conscience.

Does Everybody Wang Chung completely disbelieve? He struck me as having more of a NOM perspective.

Frankly, if he is an out and out disbeliever, I am confused as to why he chose to serve as bishop, and am curious about his decision to do so.

I wanted to bump this question for Everybody Wang Chung so he has a chance to respond.

I understand that Everybody Wang Chung is a god-fearing Christian. If as the LDS Church claims, that is the core of their religion, then I think you could say that he is not an 'out and out disbeliever'. Since he believes in the core, what's the beef for Pahoran etc?

[_Doctor Scratch]

I find it interesting that these same LDS defenders that take Everybody Wang Chung to task for apologizing for the LDS Church (beyond his scope of authority, beyond his 'jurisdiction' they say) are claiming that he could not be a real, true bishop. But they don't live in his ward. So god couldn't warm their bosom or stupefy their thoughts about the issue. That's outside the realm of such for them. So these very defenders that chafe at an apology by a bishop for the whole LDS Church, have no authority or jurisdiction to assert that this person is not a real, true bishop.

Live by the sword of jurisdiction/authority. Die by that same sword.

What you have to realize here is that there's a backstory to all this that relates to some things that have been said on Liz's "secret" messageboard, "Geekynoms":

http://geekynoms.forumotion.com

If you knew that half of the story, a lot of the things you've been seeing would begin to make more sense.

[_Yoda]

Actually, Scratch, Sock Puppet is an invited member of my Geeks board, and he seems to be confused. Since you seem to know so much about my board, why don't you enlighten us?

[_sock puppet]

I have went to geekynoms to see what I have not been reading there of late. Interesting reading.

I yet think Pahoran is being inconsistent here. It rubs him wrong that Everybody Wang Chung seems less enamored with the institution and more focused on what he can do for others in his role as bishop. Everybody Wang Chung is passionate, this apparently leads him to make impassioned statements at times. He's not cut from the same roll of grey wool that so many other LDS bishops are.

Pahoran also gets worked up that Everybody Wang Chung makes apologies for LDS Inc though he is not a general authority, his jurisdiction lying with one Mormon ward. Pahoran does not claim to hold position over Everybody Wang Chung in the LDS Inc hierarchical chain. His castigation of Everybody Wang Chung as unworthy to be bishop is as outside his jurisdiction, probably more so than Everybody Wang Chung apologizing for the whole of LDS not just the ward over which he presides. It seems hypocrisy does not inhibit Pahoran when he makes his self-pious screeds.

[_Yoda]

I understand that Everybody Wang Chung is a god-fearing Christian. If as the LDS Church claims, that is the core of their religion, then I think you could say that he is not an 'out and out disbeliever'. Since he believes in the core, what's the beef for Pahoran etc?

This has been my impression of Everybody Wang Chung also. But I would like Everybody Wang Chung to answer definitively.

Pahoran would have to be the one to answer your question.

The only thing I have really seen where his actions have been inconsistent with that of a bishop is when he insulted Ray's daughters. There seems to be some general dispute on that as to whether or not Everybody Wang Chung apologized. Ray claims he didn't; Everybody Wang Chung claims he did.

No one is perfect, and if Everybody Wang Chung has, in fact, repented for his offense against Ray, then that is really all anyone can ask or expect. One cannot overlook the fact, however, that such an aggregious act does show a tremendous disrespect for the office he holds. I believe it is that blatant disrespect that Pahoran likely objects to.

[_moksha]

Since he believes in the core, what's the beef for Pahoran etc?

Everybody Wang Chung has seen the power and majesty of the MD&D board, yet denies it still.

[_Pahoran]

I have went to geekynoms to see what I have not been reading there of late. Interesting reading.

I yet think Pahoran is being inconsistent here. It rubs him wrong that Everybody Wang Chung seems less enamored with the institution and more focused on what he can do for others in his role as bishop. Everybody Wang Chung is passionate, this apparently leads him to make impassioned statements at times. He's not cut from the same roll of grey wool that so many other LDS bishops are.

Pahoran, who is quite capable of expressing his own thoughts on any subject, does not recognise your blurb as even vaguely resembling his opinions.

Pahoran takes the view that an LDS bishop may be theologically more liberal or socially less conservative than Pahoran; but cannot see how someone with such a clear opposition to the institutional Church can possibly serve in such a significant position of leadership. Nor can Pahoran see how any plausible Stake President could possibly recommend someone with Mister Chung's views for such a position, unless the candidate had carefully and systematically concealed his views from the Stake President.

Put bluntly: either Mister Chung is lying to the forum when he claims to be a bishop, or he lied comprehensively when he was interviewed for that position. I can see no room for any middle ground here.

Pahoran also gets worked up that Everybody Wang Chung makes apologies for LDS Inc

Just so you know: there is no such thing as "LDS Inc." Only the most spiteful anti-Mormons refer to the Church of Jesus Christ as "LDS Inc."

though he is not a general authority, his jurisdiction lying with one Mormon ward. Pahoran does not claim to hold position over Everybody Wang Chung in the LDS Inc hierarchical chain. His castigation of Everybody Wang Chung as unworthy to be bishop is as outside his jurisdiction, probably more so than Everybody Wang Chung apologizing for the whole of LDS not just the ward over which he presides. It seems hypocrisy does not inhibit Pahoran when he makes his self-pious screeds.

There is something fundamental you are missing.

When Mister Chung takes it upon himself to make these apologies, he claims to be doing it "on behalf of" somebody whom he has no standing to speak "on behalf of" at any time. When I express my opinion as to Mister Chung's fitness to serve in an important leadership role in the Church, I am speaking "on behalf of" nobody but myself.

Is that clear now?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_consiglieri]

Put bluntly: either Mister Chung is lying to the forum when he claims to be a bishop, or he lied comprehensively when he was interviewed for that position. I can see no room for any middle ground here.

The middle ground is that Pahoran is mistaken.

It is a large and spacious middle ground.

But not surprising Pahoran cannot see it.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Hey Pah,

Who is the bigger offender?

Joe Smith for lying about polygamy or Bishop Chung for concealing his views about LDS Inc to his steak prez, President Heinz?