Lance Armstrong and Joseph Smith

[_Tarski]

Sure it's hollow, but it's also reality. Lance cheated, his opposition cheated, and in a playing field composed mostly of cheaters, Lance's team came out on top. It may suck, and we wish it weren't so, but apparently that's the reality of it. So what is an effective remedy for s*** that happened 15 years ago? To re-write history? How is re-assigning a 15-year old Tour de France title to the team that came in 2nd 15 years ago, and which was almost certainly also cheating their asses off, any less hollow?

If doping (as it is tendentiously called) was the norm, then the playing field was effectively level. They played by rules (insider rules like in bodybuilding)--just not the rules imposed by spectating non-cyclists and lawmakers.

By the way, I am not convinced that the so called performance enhancing drugs really enhance performance much beyond placebo effects. Most anabolic steroids for example, just cause aesthetically appealing muscular water retention and also cause many negative effects to performance. Dianabol destroys joints and increases the chances of injury for example. Others cause lethargy and can cause cardiovascular damage.

Of course, if anyone could have fairly used a testosterone supplement it would be a testicular cancer survivor.

By the way, it was recently noticed that ibuprofen had a positive effect on lean muscle mass (at least in older subjects). The question was raised as to whether it should be considered a performance enhancing drug. One could ask the same about a lot of common supplements and medicines I suppose. Caffeine is a proven performance enhancer.
The rules start to seem arbitrary sometimes.

The whole subject is full of questionable assumptions and gerrymandered distinctions.

Lance was and is a superior athelete.

[_Maxrep]

Sure it's hollow, but it's also reality. Lance cheated, his opposition cheated, and in a playing field composed mostly of cheaters, Lance's team came out on top. It may suck, and we wish it weren't so, but apparently that's the reality of it. So what is an effective remedy for s*** that happened 15 years ago? To re-write history? How is re-assigning a 15-year old Tour de France title to the team that came in 2nd 15 years ago, and which was almost certainly also cheating their asses off, any less hollow?

If doping (as it is tendentiously called) was the norm, then the playing field was effectively level. They played by rules (insider rules like in bodybuilding)--just not the rules imposed by spectating non-cyclists and lawmakers.

By the way, I am not convinced that the so called performance enhancing drugs really enhance performance much beyond placebo effects. Most anabolic steroids for example, just cause aesthetically appealing muscular water retention and also cause many negative effects to performance. Dianabol destroys joints and increases the chances of injury for example. Others cause lethargy and can cause cardiovascular damage.

Of course, if anyone could have fairly used a testosterone supplement it would be a testicular cancer survivor.

By the way, it was recently noticed that ibuprofen had a positive effect on lean muscle mass (at least in older subjects). The question was raised as to whether it should be considered a performance enhancing drug. One could ask the same about a lot of common supplements and medicines I suppose. Caffeine is a proven performance enhancer.
The rules start to seem arbitrary sometimes.

The whole subject is full of questionable assumptions and gerrymandered distinctions.

Lance was and is a superior athelete.

Tarski,



I sure wish all we were dealing with was a placebo effect. As quite a competitive cyclist, I race in the pro class. Now I am not a salaried pro, but do race with these factory guys at times. At one point, there was rider in the area that raced for the armed forces. I never could quite match him. Just chalked it up to genetic differences. One year a good number of us riders, including this military pro, all caravanned to a large end of season mt. bike race together. Turns out I ended up smoking this guy. Since it was an end of season event, I figured that he had just not been training so late into the year.



Later that evening our caravan group all went to dinner. This fellow had quite a bit to drink. On the way home, the alcohol loosened his toungue and he declared to the rest of the group, "Man, racing without EPO effing sucks! I'm never doing that again". Immediate silence from all those in the car. I was shocked, though really I shouldn't have been. He then went on to tell us where he got his drugs from.



When individuals call for Lances head on a platter, I want to tell them that all sports are saturated with drugs. Heck, even rock climbers take EPO.



In cycling the best trained individuals with the most complimentary genetics will win with drugs. The same would win if the sport were clean. This sport, or any other sport, will never be clean simply because the detection methods are two years behind drug developement.