My Favorite (to date) take down of Creationism.

[_Gunnar]

This link provided by one of the sites that The CCC linked us to (thanks CCC!). It shows how there is disagreement even among creationists whether some of the hominid fossil skulls shown there are human or ape. This is exactly what would be expected of transitional forms. What else could you possibly expect from a transitional form, and how else could it even be possible to have any certainty that it, in fact, is a transitional form? Yet, creationists continue to exist that no transitional forms have ever been found! The very fact that even they cannot agree on whether they are human or ape is the strongest basis one can possibly have for concluding that they are indeed transitional forms! The dishonesty of insisting, despite this, that there are no transitional forms is breathtaking!

[_Gunnar]

There is a Utube video , Albert Mohler, why does the universe look so old.

Because i am old and lazy I have not learned to post a link. I suspect using utubes search you could find this if you actually want to review it. Mr Mohler is an up and coming leader of the group he is involved in and is committed to defending yec. He has studied enough to discouver that the universe really does look like it is old. It is not just a matter of science following assumptions to avoid god.

There is an explanation proposed. I am summerizing but I do not thnk badly. Much of the presentation is focused upon the necessessity of maintaining a literal interpretation in order not to lose the authority of scripture. But the world really does look old.......

The answer is that it looks old because God made it to look old and he is good and making things the way he wants to.

though I am completely not a young earth creationist. (I am a very old earth creationist) I know of no logical proof against this argument. So it could be, maybe, sort of.

But I have a very strong objection to this argument. It makes God a liar and a deceiver. I believe God is truth and does not deceive. Creation is a window into his heart. The universe looks old because it transparently is old.

You are quite right. The idea that God would deliberately create the appearance that the Universe is very old when, in fact, it is not, is very silly, if not downright blasphemous! This kind of thing in an attempt to defend and encourage religious faith is actually a grievous disservice to religion and makes it an object of ridicule.

[_ludwigm]

God did it because he was bored.

He brooded in darkness and there was no one else. Not a voice, not a whisper. Not the touch of a hand. Not the warmth of another heart.
Darkness.
Solitude.
Eternal confinement where all was black and silent and nothing stirred. Imprisonment without prior condemnation. Punishment without sin. The unbearable that had to be borne unless some mode of escape could be devised.
No hope of rescue from elsewhere. No sorrow or sympathy or pity in another soul, another mind. No doors to be opened, no locks to be turned, no bars to be sawn apart. Only the thick, deep sable night in which to fumble and find nothing.
Circle a hand to the right and there is nought. Sweep an arm to the left and discover emptiness utter and complete. Walk forward through the darkness like a blind man lost in a vast, forgotten hall and there is no floor, no echo of footsteps, nothing to bar one’s path.
He could touch and sense one thing only. And that was self.
Therefore the only available resources with which to overcome his predicament were those secreted within himself. He must be the instrument of his own salvation.
How?

No problem is beyond solution. By that thesis science lives. Without it, science dies. He was the ultimate scientist. As such, he could not refuse this challenge to his capabilities.
His torments were those of boredom, loneliness, mental and physical sterility. They were not to be endured. The easiest escape is via the imagination. One hangs in a strait-jacket and flees the corporeal trap by adventuring in a dreamland of one’s own.
But dreams are not enough. They are unreal and all too brief. The freedom to be gained must be genuine and of long duration. That meant he must make a stern reality of dreams, a reality so contrived that it would persist for all time. It must be self-perpetuating. Nothing less would make escape complete.
So he sat in the great dark and battled the problem. There was no clock, no calendar to mark the length of thought. There were no external data upon which to compute. There was nothing, nothing except the workings within his agile mind.

And one thesis: no problem is beyond solution.
He found it eventually. It meant escape from everlasting night. It would provide experience, companionship, adventure, mental exercise, entertainment, warmth, love, the sound of voices, the touch of hands.
The plan was anything but rudimentary. On the contrary it was complicated enough to defy untangling for endless aeons. It had to be like that to have permanence. The unwanted alternative was swift return to silence and the bitter dark.

It took a deal of working out. A million and one aspects had to be considered along with all their diverse effects upon each other. And when that was done he had to cope with the next million. And so on ... on ... on.
He created a mighty dream of his own, a place of infinite complexity schemed in every detail to the last dot and comma. Within this he would live anew. But not as himself. He was going to dissipate his person into numberless parts, a great multitude of variegated shapes and forms each of which would have to battle its own peculiar environment.
And he would toughen the struggle to the limit of endurance by unthinking himself, handicapping his parts with appalling ignorance and forcing them to learn afresh. He would seed enmity between them by dictating the basic rules of the game. Those who observed the rules would be called good. Those who did not would be called bad. Thus there would be endless delaying conflicts within the one great conflict.
When all was ready and prepared he intended to disrupt and become no longer one, but an enormous concourse of entities. Then his parts must fight back to unity and himself.
But first he must make reality of the dream. Ah, that was the test!

The time was now. The experiment must begin.
Leaning forward, he gazed into the dark and said, ‘Let there be light.’

And there was light.


(SOLE SOLUTION
By Eric Frank Russell)

[_LittleNipper]

God did it because he was bored.

He brooded in darkness and there was no one else. Not a voice, not a whisper. Not the touch of a hand. Not the warmth of another heart.
Darkness.
Solitude.
Eternal confinement where all was black and silent and nothing stirred. Imprisonment without prior condemnation. Punishment without sin. The unbearable that had to be borne unless some mode of escape could be devised.
No hope of rescue from elsewhere. No sorrow or sympathy or pity in another soul, another mind. No doors to be opened, no locks to be turned, no bars to be sawn apart. Only the thick, deep sable night in which to fumble and find nothing.
Circle a hand to the right and there is nought. Sweep an arm to the left and discover emptiness utter and complete. Walk forward through the darkness like a blind man lost in a vast, forgotten hall and there is no floor, no echo of footsteps, nothing to bar one’s path.
He could touch and sense one thing only. And that was self.
Therefore the only available resources with which to overcome his predicament were those secreted within himself. He must be the instrument of his own salvation.
How?

No problem is beyond solution. By that thesis science lives. Without it, science dies. He was the ultimate scientist. As such, he could not refuse this challenge to his capabilities.
His torments were those of boredom, loneliness, mental and physical sterility. They were not to be endured. The easiest escape is via the imagination. One hangs in a strait-jacket and flees the corporeal trap by adventuring in a dreamland of one’s own.
But dreams are not enough. They are unreal and all too brief. The freedom to be gained must be genuine and of long duration. That meant he must make a stern reality of dreams, a reality so contrived that it would persist for all time. It must be self-perpetuating. Nothing less would make escape complete.
So he sat in the great dark and battled the problem. There was no clock, no calendar to mark the length of thought. There were no external data upon which to compute. There was nothing, nothing except the workings within his agile mind.

And one thesis: no problem is beyond solution.
He found it eventually. It meant escape from everlasting night. It would provide experience, companionship, adventure, mental exercise, entertainment, warmth, love, the sound of voices, the touch of hands.
The plan was anything but rudimentary. On the contrary it was complicated enough to defy untangling for endless aeons. It had to be like that to have permanence. The unwanted alternative was swift return to silence and the bitter dark.

It took a deal of working out. A million and one aspects had to be considered along with all their diverse effects upon each other. And when that was done he had to cope with the next million. And so on ... on ... on.
He created a mighty dream of his own, a place of infinite complexity schemed in every detail to the last dot and comma. Within this he would live anew. But not as himself. He was going to dissipate his person into numberless parts, a great multitude of variegated shapes and forms each of which would have to battle its own peculiar environment.
And he would toughen the struggle to the limit of endurance by unthinking himself, handicapping his parts with appalling ignorance and forcing them to learn afresh. He would seed enmity between them by dictating the basic rules of the game. Those who observed the rules would be called good. Those who did not would be called bad. Thus there would be endless delaying conflicts within the one great conflict.
When all was ready and prepared he intended to disrupt and become no longer one, but an enormous concourse of entities. Then his parts must fight back to unity and himself.
But first he must make reality of the dream. Ah, that was the test!

The time was now. The experiment must begin.
Leaning forward, he gazed into the dark and said, ‘Let there be light.’

And there was light.


(SOLE SOLUTION
By Eric Frank Russell)

Someone gets bored because he has time on his hands. There was no time until God Created; therefore, God was not bored. This may seem an impossibility, but I believe even Einstein could comprehend this concept.

[_LittleNipper]

There is a Utube video , Albert Mohler, why does the universe look so old.

Because i am old and lazy I have not learned to post a link. I suspect using utubes search you could find this if you actually want to review it. Mr Mohler is an up and coming leader of the group he is involved in and is committed to defending yec. He has studied enough to discouver that the universe really does look like it is old. It is not just a matter of science following assumptions to avoid god.

There is an explanation proposed. I am summerizing but I do not thnk badly. Much of the presentation is focused upon the necessessity of maintaining a literal interpretation in order not to lose the authority of scripture. But the world really does look old.......

The answer is that it looks old because God made it to look old and he is good and making things the way he wants to.

though I am completely not a young earth creationist. (I am a very old earth creationist) I know of no logical proof against this argument. So it could be, maybe, sort of.

But I have a very strong objection to this argument. It makes God a liar and a deceiver. I believe God is truth and does not deceive. Creation is a window into his heart. The universe looks old because it transparently is old.

You are quite right. The idea that God would deliberately create the appearance that the Universe is very old when, in fact, it is not, is very silly, if not downright blasphemous! This kind of thing in an attempt to defend and encourage religious faith is actually a grievous disservice to religion and makes it an object of ridicule.

It is evil to think that God created an OLD universe. God simply created a complete, perfect and finished one. If man is naïve enough not to respect GOD but give credit to billions of years, that is man's undoing and not any fault of the LORD.

[Guest]

Matthew 24:35-39
35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
36But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

This one is older. Prove your version is true.
SEE http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology ... myths.html

The god's imagined by the Greeks and Romans are simply sinful petty humans having super human abilities. God is perfect. God is not a mere super human. Zeus is but a caricature of man's desire for power grabbing.

The concepts surrounding the GOD of Jacob reduces the imaginings regarding the Greek and Roman gods and goddesses to that of immature children. Doesn't it seem odd that the sophisticated societies of Egypt, Greece, and Rome worshipped comic book characters, while a family of nomadic sheepherders developed a far deeper and philosophically superior concept of GOD?

This alone would make me sit up and take note! The proof is that the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans have long since moved away from such ancient mistakes.

[_ludwigm]

Man! I wrote something literature!
Blixa in her Holiday thread!!! presented tales not written but drawn. I've presented there another tale danced.
I know that there is no Mouse King and no vivificated nutcracker tool fight with him.

There was no time before creation, and Einstein...

Who cares Einstein in a scifi short story?

Your tales (up to now and growing) in 179 pages have as many reality as Eric Frank Russell's one, or E. T. A. Hoffmann's one.

[_The CCC]

There is a Utube video , Albert Mohler, why does the universe look so old.

Because i am old and lazy I have not learned to post a link. I suspect using utubes search you could find this if you actually want to review it. Mr Mohler is an up and coming leader of the group he is involved in and is committed to defending yec. He has studied enough to discouver that the universe really does look like it is old. It is not just a matter of science following assumptions to avoid god.

There is an explanation proposed. I am summerizing but I do not thnk badly. Much of the presentation is focused upon the necessessity of maintaining a literal interpretation in order not to lose the authority of scripture. But the world really does look old.......

The answer is that it looks old because God made it to look old and he is good and making things the way he wants to.

though I am completely not a young earth creationist. (I am a very old earth creationist) I know of no logical proof against this argument. So it could be, maybe, sort of.

But I have a very strong objection to this argument. It makes God a liar and a deceiver. I believe God is truth and does not deceive. Creation is a window into his heart. The universe looks old because it transparently is old.

I don't know about Mr. Mohler's God either but the one I worship doesn't deceive his children.

[_LittleNipper]

Was Adam created with a navel? I would say as the prototype for humanity, Adam likely had a bellybutton. Does that make God a deceiver? Absolutely not. Man deceives himself and tries to blame God. Adam tried it and Eve tried it. Read the Genesis account of the FALL. Man always tries to blame GOD for his own mistakes.

[_huckelberry]

It is evil to think that God created an OLD universe. God simply created a complete, perfect and finished one. If man is naïve enough not to respect GOD but give credit to billions of years, that is man's undoing and not any fault of the LORD.

No matter how many billions of years the universe has been going around it was not created by billions of years. Time is just one of the characteristics of the universe God made. Because God is eternal the universe is not old to him even if it has been going around billions of years. Old is just our perspective because its time is large compared to ours.