Liberals and American Patriotism - WTF is the problem

[_Gunnar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5jDN12qXIg

David Frum an intelligent conservative.

What is it in that 31 minute and 32 second video do you want us to watch? Do you have a particular timestamp you're wanting us to check out?

- Doc

Iistened to the whole thing, and he makes a lot of good, thought provoking points, so it is hard to pick out particular points that stand out from the others. He is obviously a highly intelligent, well educated, well read and rational man. If all conservatives and Republicans were like him, I might never have left the Republican party in disgust like i have,

[_Kevin Graham]

I always get a chuckle when blowhards like bach try pretending the GOP cares about military. These are the same unpatriotic traitors who demeaned war hero John McCain when they elected the man who said he wasn't really a hero because POWs aren't heroes, because they "got caught"? They chose cadet bone spurs over McCain and now they're choosing cadet bone spurs over Bob Mueller, another war veteran.

[_Markk]

I always get a chuckle when blowhards like bach try pretending the GOP cares about military. These are the same unpatriotic traitors who demeaned war hero John McCain when they elected the man who said he wasn't really a hero because POWs aren't heroes, because they "got caught"? They chose cadet bone spurs over McCain and now they're choosing cadet bone spurs over Bob Mueller, another war veteran.

Okay I'll bite...how does what Trump said about McCain, translate into the GOP does not care about the military?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I always get a chuckle when blowhards like bach try pretending the GOP cares about military. These are the same unpatriotic traitors who demeaned war hero John McCain when they elected the man who said he wasn't really a hero because POWs aren't heroes, because they "got caught"? They chose cadet bone spurs over McCain and now they're choosing cadet bone spurs over Bob Mueller, another war veteran.

Okay I'll bite...how does what Trump said about McCain, translate into the GOP does not care about the military?

Treason?

- Doc

[_Kevin Graham]

The GOP is complicit by supporting him and giving him a pass.

Trump’s disrespect of veterans began long before the current election cycle. On the Howard Stern show back in 1997, sandwiched in between a bunch of embarrassing comments about women, Trump compared his sex life in the 1980s to a war experience.

“I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world. It is a dangerous world out there – it’s scary, like Vietnam. Sort of like the Vietnam era. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave soldier,” Trump bloviated. And while it’s true that being crass and disgusting is the entire point of the Howard Stern show, for someone who wants to be commander-in-chief of the armed forces to indulge himself by denigrating the war experiences of veterans is beyond the pale.

Trump has no way to know if dating has anything in common with combat, because he was a draft dodger. As Tim Mak wrote in the Daily Beast: “When Trump had the chance to join the military and fight in Vietnam, he did not take it. Instead, the rich kid got multiple student deferments from the draft and a medical deferment.”

Trump continued to inappropriately compare his civilian experiences to military ones since the Howard Stern appearance. Last year Trump told a biographer that he “always felt like I had been in the military” because of his time at the New York Military Academy, an expensive military-themed boarding school where Trump’s parents sent him because of behavioral problems.

That might be a uniquely idiotic statement from someone running for president, but it’s an attitude that, as a veteran, I’ve seen before. There’s always a guy at the bar sloppily explaining to you how he was in Junior Officer Training Corps during high school so, you know, he gets it. That guy should never run for office either.

A telltale sign that Trump does not actually know what it feels like to be in the military is his denigration of POWs. Last July at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, Trump said of Arizona senator and former Vietnam POW John McCain: “He’s not a war hero. He’s not a war hero because he was captured. I don’t like people who were captured.” Who would want to go to war for a President Trump knowing that if you were captured in the heat of battle your commander-in-chief wouldn’t “like” you?

When Trump does gesture at supporting the troops, it rings hollow. He offers six figures to buy veterans groups as props to use during campaign rallies, as if risking life and limb for your country can be monetized. And his ads that are meant to show respect to veterans probably shouldn’t feature images of Soviet and Nazi soldiers rather than American troops. To lift one of Trump’s own favorite words: it’s pathetic.

Hayden was quick to point out on Friday that the armed forces wouldn’t foment a rebellion against Trump; they’d just refuse to obey unlawful orders. Nevertheless, it was a big statement that took even the usually nonplussed Bill Maher by surprise.

It shouldn’t have. For all his talk about leadership, something that Trump fails to understand is that real leadership is predicated upon respecting the people that you want to follow you. So far, Trump has only insulted, abused and patronized service members and veterans. It’s shocking that these kinds of tactics have gotten him this close to the White House, but it will never earn him the respect of the armed forces.

Then there was his insult of Gold Star family who criticized him during the campaign (saying the Mom was a subservient woman not allowed to speak because she's Muslim) and then in October he used the death of a black soldier as an opportunity to demean President Barack Obama by saying former presidents refused to acknowledge the families of slain soldiers; a claim that was patently false, intentionally deceitful, and was called out by politicians and Gold Star families alike.

[_Markk]

The GOP is complicit by supporting him and giving him a pass.

[SNIP!]

Then there was his insult of Gold Star family who criticized him during the campaign (saying the Mom was a subservient woman not allowed to speak because she's Muslim) and then in October he used the death of a black soldier as an opportunity to demean President Barack Obama by saying former presidents refused to acknowledge the families of slain soldiers; a claim that was patently false, intentionally deceitful, and was called out by politicians and Gold Star families alike.

So because of this, the GOP does not care about the Military...does the Democrat. care about the military...if so I would love to here why using your logic here?

[_subgenius]

I always get a chuckle when blowhards like bach try pretending the GOP cares about military. These are the same unpatriotic traitors who demeaned war hero John McCain when they elected the man who said he wasn't really a hero because POWs aren't heroes, because they "got caught"? They chose cadet bone spurs over McCain and now they're choosing cadet bone spurs over Bob Mueller, another war veteran.

Of course you get a chuckle, because you have little or no intelligence on the subject. For example, H Bush has noted on several occasions his opinion about being considered a "hero" when he survived being shot down when 8 of his fellow soldiers did not (due to their being tortured and eaten).

Bush has said before that he never understood why he was given a medal because he was shot out of the sky. “When I got down on the submarine, I was just a sick, scared, young kid,” he says. The heroes were the guys shot down and killed or the guys who hit the beaches and were slaughtered, the guys who didn’t come back to families and jobs—and to political campaigns in which they could boast about what they did in the war.

Just stop embarrassing yourself KG, the spittle laden protester is so old-fashioned...maybe try to up your game with a modest thought out argument based on fact and common sense...ya know? something the rest of us could understand and respect.

[_Kevin Graham]

Bush has said before that he never understood why he was given a medal because he was shot out of the sky. “When I got down on the submarine, I was just a sick, scared, young kid,” he says. The heroes were the guys shot down and killed or the guys who hit the beaches and were slaughtered, the guys who didn’t come back to families and jobs—and to political campaigns in which they could boast about what they did in the war.

Just stop embarrassing yourself Kevin Graham, the spittle laden protester is so old-fashioned...maybe try to up your game with a modest thought out argument based on fact and common sense...ya know? something the rest of us could understand and respect.

Thank you for proving my point! You just agreed with Trump that POWs aren't heroes. Otherwise, why even bother with the George Bush comment? This means you don't ever get to complain about Democrats being anti-military again.

When Obama was President you folks had conniption fits over the dumbest crap, like Obama saluting a Marine with a coffee cup still in his hand. Had he said any of the half dozen things Trump has said to disrespect the military, you'd have called for his execution already.

[_Kevin Graham]

So because of this, the GOP does not care about the Military...does the Democrat. care about the military...if so I would love to here why using your logic here?

Yes, because if they cared half as much as they like to pretend, they would stand up to this joke of a President and stop licking his arse on every issue. They would have impeached him a long time ago.

The fact is the Right uses the military in all the ways they accuse the Left of using minorities. You don't REALLY care about them and you don't REALLY respect them, you just say you do because it serves your political agenda. Even now you guys are going with the man who won a bowling trophy instead of a war medal. Here is the Wiki on Mueller's military record:

In July 1968, he was sent to South Vietnam where he served as a rifle platoon leader with Second Platoon, H Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, 3rd Marine Division. In December 1968, he earned the Bronze Star with 'V' distinction for combat valor for rescuing a wounded Marine under enemy fire during an ambush that saw half of his platoon become casualties. Mueller eventually became aide-de-camp to 3rd Marine Division's commanding general, General William K. Jones. In April 1969, he received an enemy gunshot wound in the thigh, recovered, and returned to lead his platoon until June 1969. For his service in and during the Vietnam War, his military decorations and awards include: the Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V", Purple Heart Medal, two Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medals with Combat "V", Combat Action Ribbon, National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal with three ​3⁄16" bronze stars, Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross, Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal, and Parachutist Badge.

Meanwhile Cadet bone spurs becomes President and the military loving Republican party takes his side as he attacks Mueller.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

The fact is the Right uses the military in all the ways they accuse the Left of using minorities. You don't REALLY care about them and you don't REALLY respect them, you just say you do because it serves your political agenda.

And you're berating them for the FACT that they do this, yes? Holy crap you're either oblivious to your own virtue signalling or you're a crass partisan. Full of crap, all y'alls.

ANYWAY.

You want to know who I think the real patriots are? It's the old man I saw picking up trash with his own bucket, along a city walking path, not because he's employed by the city, but he understands civic duty and cares about his neighborhood. It's the cop who stops and bs's with the kids on his beat, not because he thinks himself some Good GuyTM, but because he likes the people he serves and protects, and because he actually lives in the same neighborhood. It's Jon Huntsman using his wealth to defeat a terrible disease.

All this insane posturing on both sides is headache inducing and just so fake. It'd be really nice if people stopped backslapping the military or using them as a benchmark for love of one's country. It'd be really nice if both sides would stop using minorities as a cudgel; they're just people who do people things and not a damn ing effigy.

It'd be nice to judge a federal manager on his ability to manage a budget, get infrastructure done, and not run our asses into the ground with debt. All the rest of it is a distraction.

- Doc