Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

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_DarkHelmet
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _DarkHelmet »

Morley wrote:
Water Dog wrote:Fair point. Although I think Trump's position on this has been taken quite out of context. It appears to me more like he was pandering to some on the left while a candidate, particularly the powerful Kennedy family, but then dropped the matter.


Trump famously said it during the Republican Primary Debates. He was pretty clear. Nothing was out of context.

He's been saying it for years.


Yeah, but Trump is like a Mormon prophet. He says stupid stuff and his apologists swoop in to explain what he really meant.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
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_moksha
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _moksha »

The words emblazoned on the Trump family crypt, Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur have now been adopted by the Republican Party as its motto.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Res Ipsa wrote:The best example I can think of when it comes to actual anti science on the left is GMO crops.


That one is mind boggling, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Norman Borlaug is credited with saving billions of lives, probably one of the most heroic people who ever lived, and he's anonymous (relatively speaking as far as the national consciousness goes). This man ought to have a damned statue on the Mall in DC.

Hrm. I wonder what drives people to mistrust provably good 'science'. I'm not sure political affiliation has much to do with it, To be honest.

eta: I didn't see EA's response above because I was reading the thread in order of posting. I'll check his links out, attempt to pick them apart, and then hopefully hurt his feelings at some point today. *fingers crossed!*

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_canpakes
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _canpakes »


Dog apparently wants to forget about Republican voter darling and ex-Presidential candidate Michelle Bachmann, too.

At least she didn’t stick around long enough to end up as Trump’s running mate.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hrm. I wonder what drives people to mistrust provably good 'science'. I'm not sure political affiliation has much to do with it, To be honest.
- Doc


The GMO thing isn't born from a rejection of science or an embrace of religious feeling. It stems from distrusting corporations like Monsanto who have done plenty to earn that distrust.
_EAllusion
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _EAllusion »

Kevin Graham wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hrm. I wonder what drives people to mistrust provably good 'science'. I'm not sure political affiliation has much to do with it, To be honest.
- Doc


The GMO thing isn't born from a rejection of science or an embrace of religious feeling. It stems from distrusting corporations like Monsanto who have done plenty to earn that distrust.


I think it has more to do with naïve preference for what is thought of as "natural" coupled with fear of new technology. It's not that anti-corporate politics doesn't play a role, but this is more significant in explaining the movement. Anti-GMOism as a movement predates the intensity of focus on Monsanto.
_Xenophon
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _Xenophon »

EAllusion wrote:I think it has more to do with naïve preference for what is thought of as "natural" coupled with fear of new technology. It's not that anti-corporate politics doesn't play a role, but this is more significant in explaining the movement. Anti-GMOism as a movement predates the intensity of focus on Monsanto.
This rings true to me. This is also the same kind of attitude that lends itself to crystal healing, "caner-curing yoga", and all sort of other junk medicine.
"If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation." -Xenophon of Athens
_DoubtingThomas
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:There is a strong anti-science component to the anti-vax, anti-gmo, and alternative medicine movements on the left


Exactly!
_Analytics
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _Analytics »

Personally, I'm disgusted with the two-party system and don't belong to either party. I form my own subtle views on an issue-by-issue basis, and feel no need to identify with one of two groups and let that affiliation decide my opinion on everything.

When considering who is generally intelligent and "pro-science", I think there are two general types. If you are the intellectual type who thinks for the sake of thinking and spends time contemplating where humanity is going to be in 100 years, 1,000 years, and 10,000 years, you are probably going to lean left. But if you are the here-and-now business type with a much shorter horizon, you are going to want to minimize interference in your business and minimize the taxes you pay. That type of person will of course lean right.

If those groups are the real intellectual drivers behind the political parties, then it makes sense that since both types of people are small minorities, they need to form alliances with larger groups. The left has formed alliances with union workers, minorities, women groups, pseudo-intellectuals, new agers, and neo-hippies. The right has formed alliances with gun nuts, evangelical Christians, Pentecostals, Mormons, militias, and neo-Nazis.

Both sides have sold out to the military-industrial complex.

That's the way I see it, at least.

Regarding vaccines, it's worth pointing out that Donald Henderson, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffett are all democrats (or in the case of Bill Gates at least, clearly leans left).
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

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_Water Dog
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Re: Left vs. Right on Science & Honesty

Post by _Water Dog »

Morley wrote:Trump famously said it during the Republican Primary Debates. He was pretty clear. Nothing was out of context.

He's been saying it for years.


Seeing as how the links you cited don't actually quote Trump, I thought I'd look up the debate. It appears to me like you and those articles are misrepresenting his position. He explicitly says he's in favor of vaccines but would like to see it spread out in smaller doses. Interestingly Rand Paul seemed to agree with him. Since then I cannot tell that he's said anything which even taken out of context could be construed as anti-vaxxer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7CtNEUm8M
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