Happy Valley Political Shooting

[canpakes]

Here is an article that makes some further comment and clarification of this horrendous murder of a good man:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/antifa-ga ... s-may-mean

The radical left has infected our youth to the point they are willing to kill innocent victims. Charlie Kirk was an innocent man.

No, MG. Extremism is destroying our political culture, and that extremism exists as much or more in the MAGA party as it exists on the left. I can't believe that you are lapping up this nonsense produced by the partisan hackery of Glenn Beck. Charlie Kirk did not commit any crimes, but he is a Christian nationalist and white supremacist. So, he was not a good person, even if he was innocent of a crime.

I’m curious as to what are the quotes or thoughts from Kirk that did not center on literal Bible interpretation, and that MG or others view as unifying, or that strengthened social cohesion or acceptance.

[Physics Guy]

Not living in the US, I was only vaguely aware of Charlie Kirk. Apparently I disagreed strongly with him about some important things. Killing people for their opinions, however, is murder.

One of the things on which we seemingly disagreed was gun control. A lot of Americans seem to me to be gun nuts. I don't think that all firearms should just be banned, though. And it should be said that no gun control measures short of a total ban would likely have saved Charlie Kirk.

According to news reports quoting Utah Governor Cox, the murderer's weapon was a Mauser model 98 rifle. I grew up with one of those on the basement wall in my father's collection. The "98" refers to the rifle's design year: 1898. It was the main rifle of the German army in World War I. So many were made back then that they are still popular as hunting rifles. They aren't assault rifles, they don't have large magazines, they fire one shot at a time and don't reload themselves automatically. They're 4 feet two inches long, so not easy to conceal. This is a firearm that people can and do legally own in countries with much stricter gun control laws than the United States.

If anyone tries to make some point about Kirk's support for the US 2nd Amendment and how he was shot while answering a question about mass shootings, they should be told to forget that angle. There are all too many crimes that make American gun laws seem bad, but I really don't think this was one of them. Unlike a lot of American shootings, this is one that could probably have happened in most countries, if someone wanted to murder a public figure.

[canpakes]

The radical left has infected our youth to the point they are willing to kill innocent victims. Charlie Kirk was an innocent man.

Regards,
MG

MG, how is that working, in your view, exactly? Can you point out some of the ‘radical left’ infections that you commonly see that cause our youth to kill innocent victims?

[Some Schmo]

If anyone tries to make some point about Kirk's support for the US 2nd Amendment and how he was shot while answering a question about mass shootings, they should be told to forget that angle. There are all too many crimes that make American gun laws seem bad, but I really don't think this was one of them. Unlike a lot of American shootings, this is one that could probably have happened in most countries, if someone wanted to murder a public figure.

I don't think the point people are making is "he got what he deserved" due to some perceived crime as much as observing that he was sanguine about gun deaths, that it was the price of having the freedom to own and carry guns. I mean, didn't this just help his cause? He just died for it.

ETA: The idea that the alleged weapon was a gun that might be accessible in any country doesn't really detract from the flood of gun deaths experienced in the US. It's a nuance most people in the debate would fail to acknowledge anyway.

[huckelberry]

Here is an article that makes some further comment and clarification of this horrendous murder of a good man:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/antifa-ga ... s-may-mean

The radical left has infected our youth to the point they are willing to kill innocent victims. Charlie Kirk was an innocent man.

Regards,
MG

I do not know any progressive left principals which would see anything positive in Kirk's murder. I do know serious principals condemning it.

First murder is wrong even if you do not like the subject. Expressing disapproval is not self defense.

American principals of democracy mean we must work together to resolve our differences. That does not mean arm in arm but it does mean some mutual respect.

Progressive respect for individuals implies respect for free speech. People have a right to express bad mediocre or good opinions and ideas.

Progressive respect for truth means different understanding should be openly debated. As ideas are explored openly it can become clearer what they mean and what value they have. If a person disagrees with Kirk it should be seen as best to have Kirk's ideas fully revealed and considered.

Progressive ideas are hidden weakened and atrophied without open conflict or comparison to conflicting ideas. Killing Kirk decreases opportunities to better understanding.

In terms of power politics killing Kirk creates a martyr amplifying his voice way over alternative views. It creates attention for what people want him to stand for. There is very real chance that politically he will be stronger dead than he would be alive.
////
OK I have stated the obvious and little more. The killer acted upon emotional distortion not principals.

[Kishkumen]

Not living in the US, I was only vaguely aware of Charlie Kirk. Apparently I disagreed strongly with him about some important things. Killing people for their opinions, however, is murder.

Indeed. Murder is a crime, and the shooter, if found guilty of that crime, should pay the penalty dictated by the law. That is how things should work in a society governed by the rule of law. Charlie Kirk had grotesque opinions but he in no way deserved to be hurt, let alone killed, because he had stinky opinions.

I would be interested to know which of the following statements MG agrees with and whether he factors these views into his apparent belief in Charlie Kirk's goodness:

If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 23 January 2024

If you’re a WNBA, pot-smoking, Black lesbian, do you get treated better than a United States marine?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 8 December 2022

Happening all the time in urban America, prowling Blacks go around for fun to go target white people, that’s a fact. It’s happening more and more.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 19 May 2023

If I’m dealing with somebody in customer service who’s a moronic Black woman, I wonder is she there because of her excellence, or is she there because of affirmative action?
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 3 January 2024

If we would have said that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative action picks, we would have been called racists. Now they’re coming out and they’re saying it for us … You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 13 July 2023

Reject feminism. Submit to your husband, Taylor. You’re not in charge.
– Discussing news of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement on The Charlie Kirk Show, 26 August 2025

The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered.
– Responding to a question about whether he would support his 10-year-old daughter aborting a pregnancy conceived because of rape on the debate show Surrounded, published on 8 September 2024

We need to have a Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor. We need it immediately.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 April 2024

America was at its peak when we halted immigration for 40 years and we dropped our foreign-born percentage to its lowest level ever. We should be unafraid to do that.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 22 August 2025

The American Democrat party hates this country. They wanna see it collapse. They love it when America becomes less white.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 20 March 2024

The great replacement strategy, which is well under way every single day in our southern border, is a strategy to replace white rural America with something different.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 1 March 2024

America has freedom of religion, of course, but we should be frank: large dedicated Islamic areas are a threat to America.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 30 April 2025

We’ve been warning about the rise of Islam on the show, to great amount of backlash. We don’t care, that’s what we do here. And we said that Islam is not compatible with western civilization.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 24 June 2025

Islam is the sword the left is using to slit the throat of America.
– Charlie Kirk social media post, 8 September 2025

There is no separation of church and state. It’s a fabrication, it’s a fiction, it’s not in the constitution. It’s made up by secular humanists.
– The Charlie Kirk Show, 6 July 2022

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... es-beliefs

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

The killer acted upon emotional distortion not principals.

You got that right. Ref the markings on the casings:

- the arrows were from the video game Helldivers 2

>two Groyper memes

>ciao bella is a Hearts of Iron IV song/meme

IMHO, the markings were nods to his online social groups that he hung out with.

That said, despite right-wing lies being spread this very moment reference his motivations, his family has stated he was upset with the victim because he wasn’t conservative enough. Mostly like, again just imho, was Kirk’s cow towing to Israel, AIPAC, and covering for the obvious Mossad agent Jeffrey Epstein. Groypers are very, very anti-Jew. They hate jews so much it’s, as they would say, surreal.

- Doc

[Rivendale]

Jesus. You can't be serious.

I am serious. And don't call me Jesus.

Surely you’re not serious.......is that better....I can't do Leslie Nielson in type...

[bill4long]

Accusing someone of being racist because they wonder about a pilots qualifications when working for a compnay that practices DEI racism that subordinates merit under racial quotas is a rational self-preservation instinct. The racism came from the airlines that practiced DEI racism. You've got the cart before the horse.

The racist part is that Kirk seemed concerned only when pilots with dark skin are at the controls. There was no other reason given.

That’s how racism works.

Well, no, that's how ignorance of greater context and understanding of a person's views and arguments works. Would you be happy to be treated that way? Kirk was clearly a meritocratist. Not a skin-color-ist.

One of many videos where he explains his views:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMJvV8SsH9E

Wondering about a non-white pilot's merit is a perfectly rational self-defense position when flying on an airline that prioritizes non-white hiring above the merit of its pilots. It's fascinating that's even contraversial amongsts some people.

[MG 2.0]

I would be interested to know which of the following statements MG agrees with and whether he factors these views into his apparent belief in Charlie Kirk's goodness…

I wasn’t a close follower of Charlie Kirk. I wasn’t, therefore, familiar with all that he has ever said in one context or another. What I did say is that he was a good man, an innocent man, that was killed in cold blood. He did not deserve in any way to be taken away from his wife and children. I agree with some things Kirk has said and have reservations about other things he has said.

It does appear from what I’ve read that his killer disagreed with Kirk and accused him of being a fascist. Apparently he had some left leaning views. That’s all fine and good to have opposing worldviews…it’s the killing of a good man and an innocent man that was a voice for those that took his cultural/political views as their own…that I find reprehensible. Our nation will go further downhill if we cannot not talk humanely to one another.

You and/or I can agree to disagree with each other or with a political nemesis without wishing ill for them. And I know that’s NOT what you are saying.

Regards,
MG