Joseph Smith & a LITERAL 3500 Year Old Abraham Autograph

[_Shulem]

Some parchments inscribed with hieroglyphics were then offered us. They were preserved under glass and handled with great respect. 'That is the handwriting of Abraham, the Father of the Faithful,' said the prophet, 'This is the autograph of Moses, and these lines were written by his brother Aaron.

1. Handwriting of Abraham upon the papyrus
2. Autograph of Moses upon the papyrus
3. Lines written by Aaron

These are things that actually caused the hearts of the early saints to burn with the Holy Ghost that was confirming these things were literally so. For God's sake, imagine if the Egyptian scribe had pasted his own fingerprint to the papyrus. No doubt it would have been proclaimed to be the very fingerprint of Abraham and the hearts of the saints would burn that much more.

But today, a new Holy Ghost is whispering a different tune into the ears of the saints. Such is Mormonism, ever evolving, ever changing. It is a house divided by itself.

[_Shulem]

Why don’t you provide the context so it can be examined and the reliability of the evidence determined?

The fact that you asked that question shows you know very little about the subject to include the testimonies and evidences. However, I often say there is no such thing as a dumb question, so . . . . Obviously, you have a lot of research to do in order to get your facts straight if you want to discuss these things. But I really don't think anyone here is going to want to discuss these things with you. You're like a 14 year old brat.

Go read:

The Story of the Pearl of Great Price; James R. Clark
The Saga of the Book of Abraham; Jay M. Todd
The Story of the Book of Abraham Mummies, Manuscripts, and Mormonism; H. Donl Peterson

PS. If you can give me the name of the king in Facsimile No. 3 then I will supply you with your requested reference. Otherwise, shut up, brat.

[_zerinus]

The fact that you asked that question shows you know very little about the subject to include the testimonies and evidences. However, I often say there is no such thing as a dumb question, so . . . . Obviously, you have a lot of research to do in order to get your facts straight if you want to discuss these things. But I really don't think anyone here is going to want to discuss these things with you. You're like a 14 year old brat.

Go read:

The Story of the Pearl of Great Price; James R. Clark
The Saga of the Book of Abraham; Jay M. Todd
The Story of the Book of Abraham Mummies, Manuscripts, and Mormonism; H. Donl Peterson

PS. If you can give me the name of the king in Facsimile No. 3 then I will supply you with your requested reference. Otherwise, shut up, brat.

LOL! The burden is on you, not me. You are talking rubbish as usual, and want to blame it on me.

[_Philo Sofee]

Shulem

Philo,

Please remind zerinus what this thread (which you made) is really all about and set him straight. He's terribly confused. He's ranting like a child and throwing a tantrum.

To him this IS scholarship. The church has tried to teach him better with the essays, but have failed. The LDS scholars have failed because the evidence fails to confirm reality with the Book of Abraham. Poor Z only has his mere faith to fall back on. There is no evidence that shows Joseph Smith got it right. You won't persuade him otherwise. A man determined to be wrong cannot be shown truth. I would just leave him alone. It is patently obvious the church has closed his mind. He obviously is scared stiff to read the Egyptologists. He obviously is scared stiff to learn actual truth using evidence. He still has the mind of a child from singing too often "I am a child of God." The church has infantiled his mind and he is fine with it. He will never amount to anything.

[_Philo Sofee]

Zerinus

Who was that “witness,” and what is the source of that quote? Why don’t you provide the context so it can be examined and the reliability of the evidence determined?

That's from my paper I posted the link to in the very first post. If you would bother doing some reading you would see I have exactly provided the context. Just because you refuse to read it and stay ignorant does not mean we have to learn for you Zerinus. For hells sake man, do some reading already. Shulem has been doing the honest thing and reading it and then bringing quotes from it here to discuss and all you do is wanny about something or other because its over your head, no surprise. Um, you have to read it to comprehend the context ya dodo.

[_Choyo Chagas]

Thankfully, most Mormons are too balanced and intelligent to become you.

i disagree this without any statistic

- 'most Mormons' are of united states (membership * attendance rate)
- are they balanced? no data, no definition --- too???
- are they intelligent? nope --- too???

q.e.d.

[_zerinus]

That's from my paper I posted the link to in the very first post. If you would bother doing some reading you would see I have exactly provided the context. Just because you refuse to read it and stay ignorant does not mean we have to learn for you Zerinus. For hells sake man, do some reading already. Shulem has been doing the honest thing and reading it and then bringing quotes from it here to discuss and all you do is wanny about something or other because its over your head, no surprise. Um, you have to read it to comprehend the context ya dodo.

I started reading it, but found it unbelievably boring, so stopped reading. I found the quote, but found no direct evidence that Joseph Smith believed or had taught that the writings were literally in Abraham's own hand. It is hearsay. There is no conclusive evidence that this is what Joseph Smith had believed or taught.

[_Jersey Girl]

I started reading it, but found it unbelievably boring, so stopped reading.

Was it like chloroform in print?

[_Philo Sofee]

That's from my paper I posted the link to in the very first post. If you would bother doing some reading you would see I have exactly provided the context. Just because you refuse to read it and stay ignorant does not mean we have to learn for you Zerinus. For hells sake man, do some reading already. Shulem has been doing the honest thing and reading it and then bringing quotes from it here to discuss and all you do is wanny about something or other because its over your head, no surprise. Um, you have to read it to comprehend the context ya dodo.

I started reading it, but found it unbelievably boring, so stopped reading. I found the quote, but found no direct evidence that Joseph Smith believed or had taught that the writings were literally in Abraham's own hand. It is hearsay. There is no conclusive evidence that this is what Joseph Smith had believed or taught.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. I expect nothing less from you child. You better just keep re-reading your own books you have written. There is the excitement of learning for you.

[_Shulem]

I started reading it, but found it unbelievably boring, so stopped reading.

Was it like chloroform in print?

When I pointed out that the word "The" has to be capitalized in spelling the name of the church zerinus fussed and quoted old standard D&C which preserves a nonofficial spelling of the church for historical reasons only. He felt he was justified and smarter for doing what he does. I dare say he doesn't care at all about the official spelling of the name of his church. All he wants to really do is argue like a child and make snide remarks while bearing testimony that he knows the Book of Mormon is true. It's impossible to reason with a person of this mindset. I have no plans to respond to him further other than, "I'm glad you think and feel the Book of Mormon is true".

Philo, I think it would be beneficial if you could condense the chapter just a little. There tends to be a lot of repeating of the same points, but I can understand your zeal and zest in wanting to do that. But make the point and move on by not repeating it quite so much and consider removing portions of a statement that don't provide extra support to the original point you're making. Keep it organized and tight. Don't be so wordy. Just make the point and move on to the next point.

Otherwise, good job and keep it up.