Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_beastie]

I think you are mischaracterizing Charity's position by projecting onto her statements the words "dumb" and "weak". Rather, I believe her mention of "getting a backbone" has to do with "wisdom", "courage", and "self-empowerment"--not by way of blame, but rather by way of offering solutions. I was hoping to flesh this out through the questions I posed earlier, but as yet I haven't received a single response.

Wade,

I didn't "project" those words onto Charity - she used them.

The reason I didn't bother to answer your questions was due to the fact that I felt like I had already thoroughly described the cycle of abuse in my past posts, and if you read the entire thread, you will find the answers. If at this point in the thread you think I "projected" those words onto charity, I doubt you read the entire thread.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz...

Although I agree that solutions are what would be nice to focus on, I think that solutions to abuse issues vary with the individual. That's why professional counseling is so important.

Absolutely... professional counseling with someone specifically trained in issues of abuse.

Everyone has different circumstances. Obviously, the main goal is for the person who is being abused to get out of the situation.

It depends what you mean by, "getting out of the situation." If you mean, women want the abuse to stop, then yes. If you mean women want to leave the realtionship, then no this is often not the case.

The main goal of the survivor is whatever she/he wants. As a therapist, my main goal is to help women and children be safe.

However, there may be different means to meet that goal. It's hard to put down one specific plan in place.

Absolutely. Abusive relationships are complicated.

In terms of plans... the first plan is always the "Safety Plan."

With some couples, if the abusive spouse is truly willing, counseling might be an option.

There are fabulous programs throughout the country for abusive partners. I've worked with literally hundreds of men, convinced of domestic violence and can tell you it is possible for abusive men to stop their abuse and become great husbands and fathers. It is not easy for sure but it is most definitely possible.

Typically, individual therapy for violence and abuse is recommended separately from couples counseling.

For others, it would be best for the abused spouse to leave the situation altogether, particularly if children are involved and are in danger.

Absolutely.

I've been away from this thread for a few days and have not read the last several pages but I wanted to address one point.

There is a good chance some readers are currently struggling with abuse. I want to be clear that many of the ideas and suggestions on this thread written by those who are not familiar with issues of abuse, are just myths and misinformation.

For those women in abusive relationships who may be reading this thread....

There is help available. There is a wonderful support network in place in this country where you will get professional help by trained therapists, knowledgeable in issues of abuse.

You will never be told to grow a spine. You will never be told you are stupid or weak to stay in your relationship. You will never be treated with pity and just patted on the back. You will never be told abuse is your fault. You will not be told what you must do, nor will anyone try to convince you to leave.

You will get support.
You will learn important information about violence and abuse.
You will be treated with respect and compassion.
You will find those who undestand your situation and care about your well being.
You will find the strength in yourself to make healthy decisions.
You will regain a healthy perspective on life.
You will be given resources to help you be safe.

I encourage you to seek help.

One phone call can start you on the way to a healthy life.

The National Domestic Hotline is a valuable resource and can give you phone numbers for local shelters, counselors, and programs in your area.

1-800-799-SAFE

Most centers for abuse have phone numbers that cannot be traced, and therapists are mindful of the danger some women may be in while seeking help. Every precaution is taken for your safety. If you are worried about searching for help on your computer, please go to a library where you can find valuable information without leaving a trace on your home computer.

You can also anonymously PM me if you have any questions or concerns.

One last point, there is also help for men and women who are abusive.

I encourage those who know they have a problem with violence and abuse to seek help.

~dancer~

[_LCD2YOU]

I was an altar boy.

Oh, the scars.

[_beastie]

Thanks, TD.

[_BishopRic]

Hey Rick,

If you feel that the word "trauma" is well suited in your's and others LDS experience, then I am more than willing accept that (and pretty much thought that I already had). I'm just not sure that the lack of trauma for many of us may necessarily be a function of "incoculation" rather than simply looking at things in a different way--perhaps not seeing certain things as "inconsistency" or not applying certain faith-demoting meanings to them. Who knows.

Whatever the case, I look forward to getting together after the holidays. Maybe if you get a chance you can take a look at my left eye to see if you can tell why it causes me to see as if looking through wax paper. I would be please to set up an appointment to be examined at your office, but I wanted to get a preliminary opinion to see if the exam is even worth it.

Happy New Years to you as well!! Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Sorry for the late reply here...finally getting past the holiday partying....

Of course I pulled the term "spiritual trauma" out of the air -- maybe there's a better way to describe the process. Perhaps another way to explain it is that there is a deflection in spiritual momentum. Like running a straight line to a goal line, then you get blind-sided, and tackled. If, how, and when you get back up...then what you do after, is all new and uncertain. In many cases, the new "play" is completely different than the original strategy. It's not a matter of the correct "play," but a matter of what the "tackle" did to the runner.

For me, I like to think that many of us benefited from the tackle. It forced us to learn different, and maybe better plays to get into the endzone. Others struggle to get up at all. Some might have been seriously injured. Still others keep complaining to the referee...claiming a foul on the play. I'm sure we all; know each kind.

The way I view it is that it IS a game. Perhaps it's all a process we must go through to find what our strengths are. What position is really best for you? For me? Maybe it's okay that they are different. Maybe the bigger picture is that we benefit from another's challenges. Maybe the team does best with a few runners, a few receivers, kickers, etc....and in the end, we score more touchdowns when we utilize diverse people.

Okay...done rambling. Let's chat soon!

[_mentalgymnast]

How many others have had a crisis of faith experience that was a turning point in their spiritual journeys?

Participation in my very first online bulletin board, mormon-l. This experience, along with many other internet and paper book experiences pushed me along through Fowler's stages of faith. I'm basically back where I started, but with a new view. Almost full circle. Wow, what a ride it's been! And we're not done yet. Always something new to learn and think about...then assimilate.

Regards,
MG

[_BishopRic]

How many others have had a crisis of faith experience that was a turning point in their spiritual journeys?

Participation in my very first online bulletin board, mormon-l. This experience, along with many other internet and paper book experiences pushed me along through Fowler's stages of faith. I'm basically back where I started, but with a new view. Almost full circle. Wow, what a ride it's been! And we're not done yet. Always something new to learn and think about...then assimilate.

Regards,
MG

Enjoy the ride!

[_Tori]

While reading some great posts on the Dehlin thread, I got curious about if others had something happen to them that triggered "further study" about issues they may not have even cared about otherwise. In other words, was there an event -- some may call it "being offended," or a shocking experience in church that sparked research/thought/prayer...all which combined to a change in faith?

My journey BEGAN when my older brother sent me an email about his own "Crisis of Faith" he was struggling with. I read his email while I was at work taking phone calls for Sprint PCS customer service at the time...and read the email on cell phone vision services while talking to this customer. Suddenly my heart and breathing stopped. I could think, nor could I remember what I was doing for this customer. I suddenly just told them I had to transfer them. I got off the phone, ran outside and called my dad. We talked about it for a while and decided we felt it was best he be the one to go see my brother about it all. As a strong TBM I suddenly became obsessed with reading EVERYTHING I could find to answer his concerns. I searched every anti-mormon book and writing and video and audio I could find, I searched all apologetic works I could find. I checked almost EVERY source. I even know a guy who works in the archives that confirmed some stuff with me. I spent MOST of my day involved in church history, etc. I became an extreme LDS apologist for a while. I remember a key devastating point in my Journey was when I read the actual "Lecture at the veil" and some other journal entries, and the trial of Bishop Edward Bunker and threats against Elder Pratt all regarding the Adam-God doctrine that it finally sunk in that Mormonism was absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to believe in the way I was raised to believe it. Of course there were MANY things that contributed to it, many of them pretty major things...but I just distinctly recall this as a major "final straw" that broke me. I'd always been told that the Adam God stuff was all a misrepresentation or scribal errors and all that BS. I finally realized on that day that church leaders and apologists sometimes lie and twist things as often as the "anti's" do. It sickened me. I couldn't sleep. I PRAYED and recorded most of my prayer and supposed answers that I thought I received as it "came to my mind". That day, the TBM-Tidejwe died and I was born on a journey for truth in whatever form it lies...I still believe there is A LOT of truth in Mormonism. I BELIEVE and have FAITH in a lot of it, though my interpretations are significantly different from that of other TBM's. There are some experiences in my life that I have trouble reconciling through logic and rational critical thinking that also help me believe there is SOMETHING there. I really don't know how else to understand some of them. I could accept being delusional or mind games on some of them, but others experiences are more difficult when other parties confirm the same thing without my leading them on. Perhaps I'll bring up an example or two some day...but suffice it to say, there is where I hit my breaking point. My older brother got me obsessed with apologetics and the Adam-God truth finally nailed me down. It wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't been lied to by leaders and apologists for so long about it being out of context and scribal errors...liars...it hurt so bad I was literally sick and at the same time it's now one of the things I'm most grateful for in my entire life! I can't even begin to express how glad I am to know what I know and be free and open-minded seeking for truth in whatever form it lies...

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Mine was very similar. I began studying everything I could also, to find something that would reassure me of the truth. The moment it all became clear to me, I literally wanted to vomit. I felt the color drain from my face and put my head on my desk and wept.

I can't put my finger on one particular thing or one 'traumatic' experience but for me it was more line upon line---precept upon precept. I was going through several things personally, such as a divorce and a child's death which only made me more sensitive and open. I was hungry for an explanation. I wanted this 'Church' that I had been born in, believed, loved... to be true. I had believed for 46 years and I was absolutely devastated when it all came crashing down.