Mary wrote:2. Snow interviewed the female Doe's because she was asked to as the babysitter had been involved in the other Bountiful case. (Lemmie feels that babysitter is entirely innocent...I'm not so sure)
If I recall, the accusation against that babysitter had its origin with Dr. Snow. Did it not?
3. The female Doe's admitted to Snow that the female baby sitter and two older boys independently picked out from a year book had engaged in sexual play with them.
Getting people to pick faces out of a yearbook (or line-up) is very, very unreliable and easily manipulated. Unless we can see exactly how the pictures were presented and picked, I would have a low level of confidence in that as evidence. Heck, it's entirely possible that the babysitter had boys come for innocuous visits and the kids saw them then. When I was a teenager, I visited friends who were babysitting more than once.
4. One of the Doe's told her mother of the touching parties. Snow wasn't involved. Snow did not implant that memory. It came from the female Doe.
Check the timeline. That daughter had already had several sessions with Snow.
5. One of the Doe's asked her mother what the difference was between what happened at the parties and daddy's marriage lessons. Carstensen's involvement was acknowledged by the female Doe to her mother. It wasn't a false memory implanted by Snow in this case.
The kids had already been counseling with Dr. Snow for a month. I think there is plenty of reason to believe that Snow was the origin for those claims. Yes, Carstensen may have been a child molester, but considering what Snow did in cases where there was nothing going on, I can only imagine what would have happened if she ever "counseled" kids who had actually been abused.
6. Bill Carstensen admits in a recording (that Cinepro rejects) that the baby sitter, Miles and Bill and Dan attended touching parties.
I don't "reject" the recording. I simply pointed out the many, many indicators that the interview is suspect. Especially the fact that he appears disoriented and confused. I've already pointed out the danger of false confessions and the different influences that can make people believe they've committed abuse, so I'm not sure Marion Smith's interview with Carstensen is helpful.
7. Bill is diagnosed with paedophilia at John Hopkins. His abuse has further been corroborated by the children of Mother 2, and by Marion Smith's youngest daughters who won a 2.5 million *no contest* settlement against him in the early 90s.
Like I've said, I'm not defending Carstensen. There are certainly good reasons to believe he abused his kids (and the kids of his second wife). But I don't consider Marion Smith to be a reliable narrator, and a "no contest" judgment doesn't mean you're guilty; it means you didn't fight it.
9. Ritual abuse did not seem to play a large part In this case.
The accusations against the Miles and the babysitter are ritual abuse.
10. The children of Mother 1 were medically examined at the Primary Care Hospital and the Dr there gave a medical opinion of all 4 children of sexual abuse after examining them. The Dr never recanted this medical opinion.
As I've pointed out,
the common medical examination at the time is now recognized as being notoriously unreliable. So without more information on what the examination entailed, it's impossible to know how reliable we should consider that diagnosis.
11. Some of the children have had to have multiple surgeries as adults to correct some of the physical damage caused by childhood abuse.
Again, more information would be needed. But that could certainly lend credence to the claims against Carstensen.
So, I think the case of Carstensen and the Miles has to be considered on its own merits.
I agree. I think it is much more likely Carstensen abused his kids.
Another point, Cinepro keeps quoting Loftus as If she is the be all and end all on recovered, implanted or repressed memory. She isn't. Her theories have been widely criticised as unscientific, because you can't replicate childhood abuse and the way it is processed in a laboratory as Rosebud has already explained. Getting lost in a supermarket is not the same.
I've quoted Loftus, and you can look at her research. If you want to present the case against her, go ahead, unless you're just hoping everyone will take your word for it.
It's possible that the brain and its memories react totally differently to child abuse, but it's also possible that it doesn't. Right now, I'm guessing that it doesn't.