Our newest member, Wayneman: Shades' missionary companion??

[_Jersey Girl]

Okay, I'm opening my big "never" mouth.

I have spent more Sunday's than I can count, sitting on wooden church pews wearing a dress in the humid heat of Jersey summers long before the church had air conditioning. I have gotten myself up early to rally the Jersey Girl troops in order to get everyone out the door and "presentable" for church. (Dresses and the whole nine yards). I have rushed to teach a class when going from one activity to another even when I would have rather gone home and taught class every single Sunday for years when I would have liked to take a break but knew there were no substitutes. I've spent umpteen evening hours supporting practices and rehearsals of various kinds. I have kept children entertained during Worship Service when I would have rather dragged them out the door.

Okay, what am I saying here.

I'm saying that believers of all stripes, tolerate inconveniences and do things they'd rather not do for their faith.

How is the wearing of garments different?

[_Daniel Peterson]

So smearing me for attempting to do my job as a bishop -- a job that I did not seek, and for which I receive no compensation -- is merely par for his course.

Then don't do it, you aren't doing anyone any favors by prying into their sex lives.

You don't "need" to ask those questions.

You don't need to attempt to dictate my behavior as a believing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

How is that any of your business?

[_harmony]

That that you complain about wearing garments yet continue to wear them indicates how manipulated and controlled you are.

You are absolutely right, it's a small thing, it's friggin underwear.

Uhhh.. marg? I complain about a lot of things... my job, my children, my brother, my sisters, my car, my house, my dog, the weeds in my flowers, the necessity of pruning my roses, the taste of my food supplement, having to clean the brushes of my robot... so what? On a scale of 1-10 (1 being a perfect world, 10 being hell), having to wear garments rates pretty danged low. I'm used to them. They keep me warm. And thanks to all these years of hot flashes, at times... too warm. So I complain... and take them off.

It's a small thing, on average.

[_harmony]

I'm saying that believers of all stripes, tolerate inconveniences and do things they'd rather not do for their faith.

How is the wearing of garments different?

It's not. Except for marg, who isn't a believer by any stripe, and has no clue what it means to be a believer.

And you're a good woman, Jersey... even if you are height-challenged.

[_harmony]

Then don't do it, you aren't doing anyone any favors by prying into their sex lives.

Whoa back, marg. You are not in a position to be able to make this statement... you know nothing about how anyone else receives Daniel's (or any bishop's) counsel. It's a private individual thing, and you have no horse in that race.

You don't "need" to ask those questions.

Where do you get off thinking you are qualified to tell Daniel (or any other bishop) what they need to ask/do/say in their capacity as leader of their congregation? You aren't a believer! You know nothing about it!

[_Mister Scratch]

Thank you, marg. Although I have frequently disagreed with your points and your method(s), I appreciate your straightforwardness here. I in no way meant to "portray" DCP as a "Peeping Tom." I simply reacted, on a gut level, to what he'd said about prying into the sexual lives of his parishioners. Frankly, I found it creepy and disquieting.

Scratch are you LDS? Even marginally so? Active, not active or Ex? You do not need to answer of course.

Of course. And I'm not going to answer. I know better than that.

But if you are you are as familiar with the confessional process in the LDS Church as I am. You know as well as I that most bishops are decent and kind in their approach and do not pry nor take glee is listening to confessions. Indeed it is one of their most difficult jobs as a bishop.

I would agree with you here.

Nothing Dan wrote is much different than what any other decent bishop does in humbly attempting to bless the lives of their flock. Nothing.

I disagree, Jason. Some bishops ask more than others. (Just read Ray's post earlier in the thread.) For example, when I was young, I had two bishops---one who would ask, "Do you obey the law of chastity," vs. the other, who was far more explicitly, asking things like, "Do you masturbate?"

So do you find every bishop who listens to confessions as part of their call creepy and disquieting or is this just another chance to smear Dan Peterson?

There is a difference between "listening" and "asking questions." Listening to a parishioner's confession is, I think we'll agree, perfectly fine. But I think we need to draw a line between listening, vs. digging around in order to find out the specifics concerning "oral sex, coitus interruptus, and the like." Is it really necessary for a bishop to know such things?

[_Mister Scratch]

So smearing me for attempting to do my job as a bishop -- a job that I did not seek, and for which I receive no compensation -- is merely par for his course.

How is it "smearing" for me to simply state that I found your revelations to be disturbing? Further, if you are doing your "job" in the way that you described, I hardly think it's problematic for me to point out potential problems with what you're doing. Or are you just trying to muzzle a critic?

I suspect, whatever he may say, that his level of loyalty to the Church is roughly comparable to marg's. No wonder they see eye to eye on this matter.

Right. As if "Church loyalty" depended on approving of every last little thing that Daniel C. Peterson has been up to.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Anyway, next time harmony starts wielding her cattle prod at Daniel Peterson, maybe we can discuss her propensity for violence.

How on earth did I miss the comment above?

Oh my. Harmony has threatened me with violence. She's contemplating doing me harm. Oh oh oh.

I think I can extract paranoid fantasies from this for months, at the very minimum.

How gratifying! How richly soul-satisfying!

[_Jersey Girl]

I just have to say this. This board (these exchanges and exchanges on another thread I've been reading) has the most negative effect on me to the point of toxicity. I've been known to engage in a battle or two (hundred) on boards but quite frankly, I cannot understand how or why people can be so consistently rude, snide and biting to each other on a daily basis. Or why anyone would want to spend so much time doing it.

The fact that I've spent time reading it and joining it, is just unreal.

I understand disagreements over various issues but for some people around here, it's just chronic.

And depressing.

I tried to draw attention to common ground here and it just doesn't work to forward a discussion. The truth is (I think) is that not many want to forward a discussion or increase understanding.

Geez.

[_harmony]

The truth is (I think) is that not many want to forward a discussion or increase understanding.

Geez.

He was teasing, Jersey. Really he was. He knows I didn't make the statement, Nightengale did. And since I can't find the batteries to the cattle prod, nor the cattle prod itself, he's safe.