ScienceWhopper:Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

[_Hoops]

Um ....

Wow.

Just wow.

Not only is that a completely ignorant thing to say, but it's something that you can disprove in your kitchen.

Seriously Hoops, you're a brilliant troll, right? I mean, you don't actually believe this stuff, correct?

It would seem the state of Oregon agrees with me. All you've offered is your feigned disbelieve followed by your barely disguised arrogance.


http://www.oregon.gov/DSL/SSNERR/docs/E ... x.pdf?ga=t
Ah, but I would be worried about a comet striking earth if you had responded differently.

[_Themis]

No, the wouldn't. Not necessarily anyway. When salt and fresh water meet, often they don't mix at all.

This is why it is so hard to discuss these issues with people who are so extremely ignorant of the sciences, and it seems willfully ignorant. Any global flood event will kill almost all life on earth, and the vast majority of species of animal and plant life. It would leave massive signs, and there would be little life and few species alive today. We do not see anything like this, especially given the fact we have so many species around the world, much of which is found only in small areas that fit their survival needs. All plant and animal life sees no major change in their environment anywhere around any supposed global flood event. Humans existed all over the world before and after, as did plants and animals. Animals, and even plants, could not have populated the earth as we see it today in such a time. There are so may problems with Noah's flood, only the truly ignorant believe in it as a global event. I'm sorry if that seems offensive, or even arrogant. It's not, but something has to be said. My own parents and even some of my siblings believe in a global event, but it's due to ignorance, and I don't say much unless they are interested.

[Guest]

The Yangshao, Sumerians, Samarra, and Hassuna cultures called. They are wondering why they didn't get invited to the party.

One of the most ironic views of the whole debate is held by those who believe that evolution never occurred, and yet obligate carnivores went from being vegetarians to carnivores in a couple of generations. And said "evolution" (what else is it?) occurred from two of a "kind" so not only did vegetarian critters manifesting characters express to the purpose of stalking and killing prey (rapid reflexes, rapid burst speed, stereoscopic vision, claws, teeth, the complete lack of molars in cats, short digestive systems, the inability to digest cellulose, I can go on) go from stalking straw (you need lots of speed, stealth, and teeth that rip to capture that wily straw) to herbivores....... now from 2 frogs (a kind) we now have 50,000 species of frogs. Again from a single breeding pair, and 2 beetles we have 1-100 million species of beetles. And this "specification" is possible how?

Olympic level mental gymnastics.

[_keithb]

Um ....

Wow.

Just wow.

Not only is that a completely ignorant thing to say, but it's something that you can disprove in your kitchen.

Seriously Hoops, you're a brilliant troll, right? I mean, you don't actually believe this stuff, correct?

It would seem the state of Oregon agrees with me. All you've offered is your feigned disbelieve followed by your barely disguised arrogance.


http://www.oregon.gov/DSL/SSNERR/docs/E ... x.pdf?ga=t
Ah, but I would be worried about a comet striking earth if you had responded differently.

The link that you posted is obviously very situational and actually refers to a temporary situation of fresh water running into the ocean and how the water from the two doesn't immediately mix sometimes. It is a far and vastly different situation than the entire earth being covered by water and having 100+ days to mix fresh and salt water.

If you actually bothered to read the paper at the end of the link, or even if you used an iota of common sense, you would have figured that out already. I mean seriously, think about it for just a second. If salt and fresh water didn't mix, shouldn't we be finding large pockets of fresh water in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by pockets of salt water? This is actually just the first of many, many scientific problems with your statement. A second would be that, because of the process of evaporation and precipitation, if salt and fresh water didn't mix, eventually all of the oceans would become mostly fresh water with a very small ball of densely packed salt water surrounded by large pockets of fresh or essentially fresh (i.e. low salinity) water.

I really hate to label in most instances, but this was an incredibly ignorant thing to say on your part Hoops. I really think that you need to learn even a basic amount of science before you can contribute constructively to conversations like this one.

[_Hoops]

This is why it is so hard to discuss these issues with people who are so extremely ignorant of the sciences, and it seems willfully ignorant.

I'm still waiting for you to start discussing anything, let lone this.

Any global flood event will kill almost all life on earth,

That was pretty much the point, wasn't it?

and the vast majority of species of animal and plant life. It would leave massive signs, and there would be little life and few species alive today.

Species is your construct, not the Bibles. The Bible mentions "kinds" and we don't know how disclusive that is.

We do not see anything like this, especially given the fact we have so many species around the world, much of which is found only in small areas that fit their survival needs. All plant and animal life sees no major change in their environment anywhere around any supposed global flood event. Humans existed all over the world before and after, as did plants and animals.

How does this conflict with the Biblical record?

Animals, and even plants, could not have populated the earth as we see it today in such a time. There are so may problems with Noah's flood,

What level of repopulation are you looking for?

only the truly ignorant believe in it as a global event.

Yes, of course, they don't believe as you so they must be ignorant - even the scientists.

I'm sorry if that seems offensive, or even arrogant.

It's not. It's neither. I couldn't possibly care less what you think.

It's not, but something has to be said.

Aren't you heroic for shouldering this burden. I'm sure there's a prize out there somewhere for you.

My own parents and even some of my siblings believe in a global event, but it's due to ignorance,

You mean you're smarter than you're own parents? And siblings? Wow! You hit the genetic lottery didn't you?

and I don't say much unless they are interested.

Smarter, genetically superior, and magnaminous. How do you stand yourself? Could you erect a statue of yourself somewhere so we can all fawn over your greatness?

[_Hoops]

The link that you posted is obviously very situational and actually refers to a temporary situation of fresh water running into the ocean and how the water from the two doesn't immediately mix sometimes. It is a far and vastly different situation than the entire earth being covered by water and having 100+ days to mix fresh and salt water.

How could you possibly know this?

If you actually bothered to read the paper at the end of the link, or even if you used an iota of common sense, you would have figured that out already. I mean seriously, think about it for just a second. If salt and fresh water didn't mix,

I never wrote they didn't mix, really, you can read I assume. I wrote that they don't always mix. Implying, which should be easy for one to understand for someone such as yourself with such a huge and magnificent scientific background, that there are situations where the two don't mix. EXACTLY what this paper tells us.

Now, i you're willing replicate a world wide flood to show that no such situations existed and therefor salt and fresh water had to mix all the time, every time, please go ahead.

shouldn't we be finding large pockets of fresh water in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by pockets of salt water? This is actually just the first of many, many scientific problems with your statement. A second would be that, because of the process of evaporation and precipitation, if salt and fresh water didn't mix, eventually all of the oceans would become mostly fresh water with a very small ball of densely packed salt water surrounded by large pockets of fresh or essentially fresh (i.e. low salinity) water.

You're amazing. Biblically speaking, how much time was the earth covered in water? Are you saying that this level of evaporation would have occurred in that amount of time?

I really hate to label in most instances, but this was an incredibly ignorant thing to say on your part Hoops. I really think that you need to learn even a basic amount of science before you can contribute constructively to conversations like this one.

Of course that's what you would say. That's ALL you say.

[_Franktalk]

It seems few are reading this thread anymore. It has turned into a mud fight. But I will post a link for those who happen to come along. The link is from a guy who has an alternative theory about evolution. Mainstream science has really tried to suppress this guy.

http://www.uvm.edu/~jdavison/davison-manifesto.html

The fossil record has big jumps in it and this theory matches those jumps. It also tries to explain extinction. I enjoy reading it every once in a while just for the alternative view.

Hoops, if you haven't read this paper I think you will enjoy it.

[_Morley]

It seems few are reading this thread anymore. It has turned into a mud fight. But I will post a link for those who happen to come along. The link is from a guy who has an alternative theory about evolution. Mainstream science has really tried to suppress this guy.

http://www.uvm.edu/~jdavison/davison-manifesto.html

The fossil record has big jumps in it and this theory matches those jumps. It also tries to explain extinction. I enjoy reading it every once in a while just for the alternative view.

Hoops, if you haven't read this paper I think you will enjoy it.

Emphasis mine.

What has mainstream science done to suppress Davison? (Ignoring him is not suppressing him.)

[_Hoops]

It seems few are reading this thread anymore. It has turned into a mud fight. But I will post a link for those who happen to come along. The link is from a guy who has an alternative theory about evolution. Mainstream science has really tried to suppress this guy.

http://www.uvm.edu/~jdavison/davison-manifesto.html

The fossil record has big jumps in it and this theory matches those jumps. It also tries to explain extinction. I enjoy reading it every once in a while just for the alternative view.

Hoops, if you haven't read this paper I think you will enjoy it.

Frank, don't you get it? anyone with an alternate view, including scientist who have supporting evidence, is ignorant. Everyone KNOWS that evolution is fact, The Flood didn't happen, there is no God, and mean, scary religion will soon disappear.

[_Hoops]

I got through the second paragraph then had to stop. He says: "I, like many others, have come to the conclusion that Darwinism doesn't work." That's all I need to know to conclude that this guy is an ignorant blowhard.

Besides, he's only a PHD. And teaches where? Vermont? and what does he teach? 2nd year biology? Come on! No true scientists come from there. Everyone knows that to question Darwinism means one is not a true scientist. As it's been said on this board: Evolution is a fact.

Dismiss this guy. He's a fraud.