Mormonism's Greatest Downfall.

[Anonymous]

But [Emma] did not understand polygamy and thus section 132.

This is one of the most ironic statements you have ever uttered Why Me.

So, Emma Smith, the wife of serial philanderer Joseph Smith, who had to stand there against her will and watch as he took the Lawrence sisters as additional wives, who had to find out about many of Joseph's other secret, fake "wives" through the grapevine, and who had caught him in the act with Fanny Alger back in the early 1830s, prior to any nonsense about "sealing power" and all the rest, did not understand polygamy, and you do?

Why Me, if there was ever, ever even one single, solitary individual in the entire history of the LDS Church who truly understood polygamy, it was Emma. Do not even go there. If you don't understand what I just wrote, then read it again, and think about it until you do.

Here is an interesting idea for you. Let's consider both possibilities here, ie: that Emma was in on the fraud, and that she was a true believer.

1) Emma in on the fraud.
Ok, so Emma was in on the fraud, and she fought Joseph tooth and nail about polygamy. He comes up with a "revelation" from God which justifies polygamy. She knows it's bogus, but she also knows that others of his followers know about this revelation. What are her options? She can fess up to the fraud, repudiate Joseph, and lose everything that his position has gotten her, her comfortable home (the Nauvoo Mansion House by this time), her status, her friends (they were TBMs, and undoubtedly would not take kindly to her "apostasy"), probably even her children, and be left out in the cold with nothing. Or, she can bite her tongue and go along with it, as she has done so far so many times.

2) Emma was a true believer.
Ok, so Emma was a true believer. She may not have liked polygamy, but hey, God told her that Joseph had to do it, so who is she to argue against God? So, just grit your teeth and bear it. And then, after Joseph dies, she refuses to go out West with the man acclaimed by a majority of remaining Mormons as Joseph's successor, and spends the rest of her life teaching her children that Joseph never practiced polygamy, that it was all Brigham's fault, etc. Hmm, some true believer, eh?

But regardless, whether she was in on the fraud, or whether she actually believed Joseph, there were very strong incentives for her not to repudiate Joseph and the "revelation" where the Creator of the Universe gives him permission to f*ck any woman he wanted.

[_Inconceivable]

But [Emma] did not understand polygamy and thus section 132.

..What are her options?

She can fess up to the fraud, repudiate Joseph, and lose everything that his position has gotten her, her comfortable home (the Nauvoo Mansion House by this time), her status, her friends (they were TBMs, and undoubtedly would not take kindly to her "apostasy"), probably even her children, and be left out in the cold with nothing.

No doubt, she probably made the better of the God awful choices presented to her. If she hung on to the fraud, at least she had a home for her children and the security of friends.

And, as we have seen, previous to her dirtbag husband dying, he had deeded a portion of church owned property to himself. By right of survivorship, Emma received this bounty. If she had rejected/divorced Smith, he had it within his power to destroy her future security.

Once he died she finally had the option of what wasn't possible previous:

She left the church, with her children, and had the wherewithall to make it on her own.

Kudos.

She's still seemingly a dead ringer for Hillary Clinton, though.

[_Brackite]

Here is what Book of Mormon Witness Oliver Cowdery Stated:

When he [Joseph Smith] was there we had some conversation in which in every instance I did not fail to affirm that which I had said was strictly true. A dirty, nasty, filthy affair of his and Fanny Alger's was talked over in which I strictly declared that I had never deserted from the truth in the matter, and as I supposed was admitted by himself.

( http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Oliver_Cowdery )

[_ajax18]

You know I've met people who have been wrong on one issue and right on many others. I think we have a tendency to say an individual is completely evil or completely good based on one fact. And I understand this. This is how we define science. The smallest math error makes 99 correct assertions all wrong.

There is a meaning to life that I've come to learn we all must find for ourselves. It seems impossible to use inductive reasoning to arrive at absolute laws on this for everyone. In the thoughts Sartre, you can't tell another what to believe anymore than you can tell another who to marry or what to do for a living. And yet even Plato new there was a spirit world. Nor can you tell me with a absolute certainty that there is no other world but what we see and experience in mortality. You can't prove to me there is no God.

And since you're not omniscent, you can't tell me what I should and should not believe about Joseph Smith or how I should view the patriarchal fathers. We once had free speech in America, but remember that even the Romans with their "no mercy," brutalilty could not control what a man thinks. And when I hear people disparage Joseph Smith as completely evil because of one thing, how can I not doubt just as I doubted the garbage preached from the pulpit that the Church is always right. Haven't you taken enough multiple choice and T/F exams in your life to be weary of that word always?

I don't agree with the perspective of a lot of women on relationship obligations and roles. But that doesn't make every woman wrong about everything. And while from my perspective as a man they're evil, they can still do good works for others and often do. And I trust that an increase in knowledge will change our feelings on a lot of things. In my case it already has. I still think a lot of women are a pain in the neck for men, but knowing God and his justice has made me less upset about it. Because I know that equity is imminent.

You're not me. You don't know me. You probably don't care about me. And that's ok, you're probably not capable of it anymore than I'm capable of being you. But don't judge me as if you know everything about me. And don't judge Joseph Smith either. I don't think you really have to believe in him or not. It's a question of whether you believe in the principles he taught. If polygamy turns out to be false, that doesn't mean deist are fools and atheism is proven true. Neither this nor the Book of Abraham problems or even the Book of Mormon problems mean that the LDS church is not God's church. It doesn't mean that your brain is all that is there and that the spiritual world does not exist. In spite of all my hangups with the church I've once again found the spiritual world, not God this time, but family, ancestors, and premortal acquaintances. We all will have to when we die whether we care to or not. Imagine yourself dead and nonexistent and you'll find there is still something left. You can never truly cease to exist. I've been a lot happier since I found it again.

[_Yong Xi]

No, as I wrote earlier, he was a man in a hurry. I have this feeling or perhaps I read it somewhere, that he needed to make up for lost time. God commanded plural marriage and he dragged his feet. Thus the last two years of his life, he went on a plural marriage frenzy. It wasn't horny toadism but a feeling that he needed to get on with it---the drawn sword did the trick.

You humor me. This sounds like you're mocking Joseph Smith.

[_Brackite]

Polygamy was instituted by god. He had his reasons.

Polygamy was Not instituted by God. Polygamy is an abomination before God. Here is again Jacob Chapter Two Verses 23 through 24:

Jacob 2:23-24:

[23] But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

[24] Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Now Miss Taken, I know about the grandson but Sidney's son tops Sidney's grandson. According to the son, sidney denied writing the Book of Mormon on his deathbed.

This is about the only thing I agree with You on, Within this entire Discussion Thread.