Your list pretty much confirms what we are suggesting.
1. Got involved in a commercial personal improvement program which conflicted with Church teachings.
In other words... the church does not seem true.
2. Would not belong to a Church which did not condemn capital punishment.
In other words, the church does not seem right (or aligned with his/her personal beliefs).
3. Thinks God did not answer his prayers when he was doing everything he should be doing and God should have.
In other words, the church/God does not feel right or seem true or live up to its teachings in his/her experience.
4. Decided members are snooty and judgemental.
This sounds like someone who no longer attends church because it is an unpleasant experience. I doubt the person stopped believing because of snooty members... unless of course members were making fun, ridiculing, mocking him/her because they didn't know about the realities of the church issues. (smile) I just do not see someone who believes the LDS church is the one and only way to God, to all of a sudden stop believing this because someone was a bit rude. I could see someone looking at the world, at members, at our human species and realizing that members are no different than anyone else, that there are good and bad in every belief system, and the LDS are not somehow more special, kind, holy, or Christlike, hence nothing special about the church?
5. Excommunicated for adultery.
Are you suggesting that this person had a full blown testimony, had an affair then decided the church was not true?
Maybe, but more likely the person, after moving away from the church had a chance to reevaluate. In other words, it was not the affair that caused disbelief but being removed from the situation enough to step back and examine life.
~dancer~
Thanks for the response, dancer. What you are saying is that each of the people did not really know what the REAL reason was why they left the Church. Or else why would they have attributed it to a different reason?
I know each of these individuals well. Two are related to me. We have had discussins about faith, belief, etc. Not a single one of them mentioned polygamy, Mountain Meadows, the Book of Abraham, different versions of the First Vision, anything to do with Joseph Smith, etc.
Are you suggesting then that it is simply a lack of testimony, rather than the issues that are continually brought up on the board? And then they simply make a choice not to life a Mormon lifestyle?
Your list pretty much confirms what we are suggesting.
1. Got involved in a commercial personal improvement program which conflicted with Church teachings.
In other words... the church does not seem true.
2. Would not belong to a Church which did not condemn capital punishment.
In other words, the church does not seem right (or aligned with his/her personal beliefs).
3. Thinks God did not answer his prayers when he was doing everything he should be doing and God should have.
In other words, the church/God does not feel right or seem true or live up to its teachings in his/her experience.
4. Decided members are snooty and judgemental.
This sounds like someone who no longer attends church because it is an unpleasant experience. I doubt the person stopped believing because of snooty members... unless of course members were making fun, ridiculing, mocking him/her because they didn't know about the realities of the church issues. (smile) I just do not see someone who believes the LDS church is the one and only way to God, to all of a sudden stop believing this because someone was a bit rude. I could see someone looking at the world, at members, at our human species and realizing that members are no different than anyone else, that there are good and bad in every belief system, and the LDS are not somehow more special, kind, holy, or Christlike, hence nothing special about the church?
5. Excommunicated for adultery.
Are you suggesting that this person had a full blown testimony, had an affair then decided the church was not true?
Maybe, but more likely the person, after moving away from the church had a chance to reevaluate. In other words, it was not the affair that caused disbelief but being removed from the situation enough to step back and examine life.
~dancer~
Thanks for the response, dancer. What you are saying is that each of the people did not really know what the REAL reason was why they left the Church. Or else why would they have attributed it to a different reason?
I know each of these individuals well. Two are related to me. We have had discussins about faith, belief, etc. Not a single one of them mentioned polygamy, Mountain Meadows, the Book of Abraham, different versions of the First Vision, anything to do with Joseph Smith, etc.
Are you suggesting then that it is simply a lack of testimony, rather than the issues that are continually brought up on the board? And then they simply make a choice not to life a Mormon lifestyle?
How long have you been interacting with so-called apostates on internet message boards, Charity? I've personally interacted with you for years now. Yet you do hear these reasons online. Any reason why you would not believe our story as opposed to these few you just mentioned from your offline experience?
thestyleguy wrote:In a way it's kind of funny because the Church actually turns into that great and abominable Church, that great whore where people taunt and laugh at others. Just look at the current church : The great whore has secret combinations, makes fun of people, and fills the earth. It's a pretty simple observation. They have become the enemy.
edit in: Let me revise the aformentioned thoughts: All though one can look at the Church and see good as well as evil the great and abominable church that Joseph Smith was writing about in the Book of Mormon was the masons. So as I'm dedicated to as much truth as possible I will revise this. BUT! why would Joseph Smith then join that great and abominable church and then take their secret ceremony and put it in his church. Maybe then with the secret ceremony it transforms the latter-day saints church into that Great and abominable Church. That great whore.
truth dancer wrote:What stikes me as ironic, is that the majority of former believers I know, were the ones who were doing everything they could and then some.
As has been stated, people do not leave the church because they don't like the meetings, want to sin, get offended, don't want a calling, or don't like the Bishop.
They release belief because it doesn't make sense, feel right, or seem true.
Simple as that.
~dancer~
What? Look at Merc, he left Mormonism so he could drink half a bottle of cheap vodka on an empty stomach and then call people DOUCHE BAGS on certain boards!
[quote="charityThanks for the response, dancer. What you are saying is that each of the people did not really know what the REAL reason was why they left the Church. Or else why would they have attributed it to a different reason?
I know each of these individuals well. Two are related to me. We have had discussins about faith, belief, etc. Not a single one of them mentioned polygamy, Mountain Meadows, the Book of Abraham, different versions of the First Vision, anything to do with Joseph Smith, etc.
Are you suggesting then that it is simply a lack of testimony, rather than the issues that are continually brought up on the board? And then they simply make a choice not to life a Mormon lifestyle?
Possibly, these people are just giving you the version that you expect to hear instead of getting into a serious discussion of their beliefs. They realize that by doing so they only reinforce your negative stereotypes, but also realizing that that your negative stereoptyes are so firmly entrenched that you will never understand what they are saying. So, they choose at least not add condemnation upon on themselves as "one of those ex-mormons who just want to bring down the faith of others," and leave you to enjoy your fragile faith on your own terms.
By the way, TD's last example, someone who was excommunited for "sexual sin" applies exactly to me. I didn't lose my testimony because I was ex'd, but being ex'd gave me the opportunity to re-examine the church and myself. It was a painful process that took a few years, but you can ask any of my Mormon relatives/friends and they will tell you that I left the church because I just wanted to sleep around. Not one of them will take the time to sit and listen to the story. They become angry and defensive at any suggestion that the church is not what they believe it to be. I'm fine with that now, after some years of struggling for understanding from them. They aren't capable of understanding anything out of their narrow little tunnel of beliefs and they are exactly where they are supposed to be.