Mister Scratch wrote:I find the TBM reactions to all of this very telling. When accounts of the Church's "Orwellian" duplicity, record keeping, and surveillance are presented, TBMs tend to react, almost uniformly, with derision and dismissal, and usually with rather predictable jokes about tinfoil hats and the like. Why, I wonder, are TBMs so averse to discussing these things
When you are inside the system, benefit from it, and are not adversely affected by it, it is indeed difficult to perceive the problems or dignify these accusations. It is only when you live in a banana republic that you appreciate the real harm that is done by a nation like the US. It is only when you deeply offend people in power that you appreciate what their power can mean in negative terms. For the fat, happy, and complacent to deny these problems is their luxury, and it is also utterly meaningless with regard to the full extent of the reality of the case.
Yes; the documentation is all there. The Church itself has admitted to the existence of the SCMC. The Church itself has admitted to the BYU spy ring. And, further, we have Nehor here admitting that the Church "hunts down" people it wants to discipline. Thus, these claims of "tinfoil hats," and the general pooh-poohing away of stuff which has been admitted to by the Church itself, points to some very deep insecurity and worry on the part of TBMs. But what is the root of this worry? Is it a fear that outsiders will think badly of the Church? Fear that this kind of stuff genuinely exists within the Church (and in a secretive fashion to boot)? Or, is it a fear of having to acknowledge that they willingly sustain an organization that engages in this obviously questionable behavior?
I was using your terms when I said 'hunts' Scratch. By hunting I meant something similar to a Missionary looking for a less-active's address though I'm sure in your insanity this will become one of your favorite quotable quotes, Uncle Creepy.
I hardly think that a missionary "looking for a less-active's address" is anywhere near on the same level as trying to ferret out a dissenter.
Mister Scratch wrote:His attorney was contacted by Church Security agents.
How would anyone know if a visitor was from Church Security? I mean, do they wear a badge? Do they identify themselves as from LDS church security?
Good grief.
I'm not sure, Harmony. I am basing this on the account written by Lavina Fielding Anderson which was linked by Rollo on the other thread. I would assume that the attorney would have asked these men who they were, and that they self-identified. And frankly, I believe Moksha is right. Church Security folks don't exactly look like run-of-the-mill people. They tend to dress and behave in certain noticeable ways.
Mister Scratch wrote:His attorney was contacted by Church Security agents. Also, he was able to determine that one of the people trying to get a hold of him was writing/calling from the COB. I don't think that "confused missionaries" would try to get to him via a bogus credit card application.
Name of attorney please? I'll call and get the straight story and report back.
The Church itself has admitted to the BYU spy ring.
I am intimately familiar with this, having a grandfather involved and several professors I have personally interviewed. The "Church" was involved only to the extent it squelched it once it figured out what was going on. My grandfather was the designated squelcher. You're just wrong.
Last edited by _rcrocket on Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Nehor wrote:I was using your terms when I said 'hunts' Scratch. By hunting I meant something similar to a Missionary looking for a less-active's address though I'm sure in your insanity this will become one of your favorite quotable quotes, Uncle Creepy.
Perhaps you could show a little maturity and drop the Uncle Creepy stuff.
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
The Nehor wrote:Does anyone else find this story ridiculous? Why in the world would 'Church Security' care where he lived?
The story smells like a fish that has laid rotten for a couple of days. I don't buy it. But who knows, maybe it happened. But I doubt it.
However, if Michael was overweighted in church publications it could be a problem in getting an academic position. Universities love published academics but usually these journals would have to be varied in name and intent. And so, that part is probably true.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Mister Scratch wrote:His attorney was contacted by Church Security agents. Also, he was able to determine that one of the people trying to get a hold of him was writing/calling from the COB. I don't think that "confused missionaries" would try to get to him via a bogus credit card application.
Name of attorney please? I'll call and get the straight story and report back.
I don't know. Could it really be that hard for you to ferret out, Bobby?
The Church itself has admitted to the BYU spy ring.
I am intimately familiar with this, having a grandfather involved and several professors I have personally interviewed. The "Church" was involved only to the extent it squelched it once it figured out what was going on. My grandfather was the designated squelcher. You're just wrong.
Name and evidence please? Or is your grandfather an "anonymous coward"?
Mister Scratch wrote:His attorney was contacted by Church Security agents. Also, he was able to determine that one of the people trying to get a hold of him was writing/calling from the COB. I don't think that "confused missionaries" would try to get to him via a bogus credit card application.
Name of attorney please? I'll call and get the straight story and report back.
The Church itself has admitted to the BYU spy ring.
I am intimately familiar with this, having a grandfather involved and several professors I have personally interviewed. The "Church" was involved only to the extent it squelched it once it figured out what was going on. My grandfather was the designated squelcher. You're just wrong.
Thanks rcrockey for the truth. I kinda knew that the some of the stories being spread about 'MOinc', 'the morg', 'TSCC' were wrong. But unfortunately, many believe. The morg is not the morg nor is it MOinc and some of the negatives being spread, are just that negatives without foundation.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
The Nehor wrote:I was using your terms when I said 'hunts' Scratch. By hunting I meant something similar to a Missionary looking for a less-active's address though I'm sure in your insanity this will become one of your favorite quotable quotes, Uncle Creepy.
Perhaps you could show a little maturity and drop the Uncle Creepy stuff.
I rather doubt it, my dear friend Pokatator. The Nehor has had his butt kicked on here so many times that he actually seems constitutionally unable to engage in actual debate. Thus, he's forced to rely on sophomoric name-calling and the like. Oh, and did you know that he has some <ahem> rather "interesting" preoccupations? Check out his dossier on my blog for more details. This may explain why he is using this "Uncle Creepy" crutch. It's called "projection".
The Nehor wrote:Does anyone else find this story ridiculous? Why in the world would 'Church Security' care where he lived?
The story smells like a fish that has laid rotten for a couple of days. I don't buy it. But who knows, maybe it happened. But I doubt it.
Why do you doubt it? Are you calling Quinn a liar?
However, if Michael was overweighted in church publications it could be a problem in getting an academic position.
But why? Have you not heard DCP and others state that Church publications on Church subjects are well-regarded in academe? I mean, FARMS Review is a perfectly reputable journal, no?
Universities love published academics but usually these journals would have to be varied in name and intent. And so, that part is probably true.
This doesn't make any sense at all. If you are hunting for an Egyptologist, you'd want someone who's published extensively in Egyptology. Likewise, if you are looking for a historian of Mormonism, you'd want someone who has published extensively in Mormon history. Who has done more of this, more effectively and more diversely, than Quinn? I'll be waiting patiently for you to enlighten me.
Mister Scratch wrote:Check out his dossier on my blog for more details. This may explain why he is using this "Uncle Creepy" crutch. It's called "projection".
I refuse to recognize your blog until you provide some new profiles! ;)
Scott Lloyd and katherine the great would be good starting points!
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07